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Hyperscalers have already outspent most famous US megaprojects

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Re: Hyperscalers have already outspent most famous US megaprojects

#131
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the opposite of a subsidy. KC stakes nothing of value and gets a defined revenue for the next 25 years.

Then why would Google mess with the bonds at all ? Again, they have the cash to buy that land and develop it without any further consideration beyond permits and planning.

They lock in things like tax rates and insulate their investment against political risks for the duration of its economic life.

Re: Hyperscalers have already outspent most famous US megaprojects

#133
post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The shovels and labour used to make those things where not depreciated. The GPUs are the shovels, not the project. AI at any capability will retain that capbibilty forever. It only gets reduced in value by superior developments. Which are built upon technologies that the previous generation developed.

> retain that capbibilty forever Not really. The base training data cutoff will quickly render models useless as they fail to keep up with developments. Translating some Farsi news articles about the war was hilarious, Gemini Pro got into a panic. ChatGPT either accused me of spreading fake news, or assumed this was some sort of fantasy scenario.

Not really.

For coding I care mostly about reasoning ability which is uncorrelated with cut off

Re: Hyperscalers have already outspent most famous US megaprojects

#134
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We could have had non-carbon energy independence by now.

But the AI fanatics claimed that AI would solve cold fusion, making that whole thing moot. The only problem is, if AI doesn’t solve cold fusion, we’re back to square one. And a few trillion dollars in the hole.

If we're counting, the USA was already pretty deep in the hole. Anybody that has experienced crippling debt understands there's a point of no return where you just embrace it.

And that point is right before rock bottom.

Re: Hyperscalers have already outspent most famous US megaprojects

#135
There's a pretty big missing case in this comparison: nuclear weapons.

The US spent ~$12 trillion in ~2024 dollars on nuclear weapons between 1940 and 1996, and the vast majority of that spending was in the 1950s and early 1960s.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_weapons_of_the_United_...

Re: Hyperscalers have already outspent most famous US megaprojects

#137
post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The shovels and labour used to make those things where not depreciated. The GPUs are the shovels, not the project. AI at any capability will retain that capbibilty forever. It only gets reduced in value by superior developments. Which are built upon technologies that the previous generation developed.

You need to separate training and inference usage of GPUs for this analysis.

"Inference consumes 60–90% of total AI lifecycle costs." So shovel is not the right analogy, more like GPU = coal burning engine. And yes, coal was a big railroad expense, more so than financing construction debt.

Re: Hyperscalers have already outspent most famous US megaprojects

#138
post #123
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also railways would always have alternative uses at that time - e.g. logistics in warfare. What other uses do GPU's have that are critical...? lol In addition to your points, this is why I always laugh when people do backward comparisons. What characteristics do they share in common? Very little.

On the topic of warfare, wars are fought differently now. Compute will be mentioned in the same breath as total manufacturing output if a global war between superpowers erupts. In highly competitive industries this is already the case. Compute will be part of industrial mobilization in the same way that physical manufacturing or transportation capacity were mobilized in WWII. I’m not an expert on military computing b…

You could argue that compute was a decisive factor in World War II even (used in code breaking and designing nuclear weapons).

Re: Hyperscalers have already outspent most famous US megaprojects

#139
post #124
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GDP adjustments are warranted, but it is more stark than both the estimates suggest. The megaprojects of the previous generations all had decades long depreciation schedules. Many 50-100+ year old railways, bridges, tunnels or dams and other utilities are still in active use with only minimal maintenance Amortized Y-o-Y the current spends would dwarf everything at the reported depreciation schedule of 6(!) years for…

The shovels and labour used to make those things where not depreciated. The GPUs are the shovels, not the project. AI at any capability will retain that capbibilty forever. It only gets reduced in value by superior developments. Which are built upon technologies that the previous generation developed.

Calling the GPUs the shovels is bonkers because a) shovels are cheap, GPUs are not. And b) when you build a bridge the bridge doesn’t need shovels to be passable. Without GPUs, the datacenter is useless, the model is useless, etc.

If anything, the GPUs are the steel that the bridge is made of. Each beam can be replaced, but if too many fail the bridge is impassible. A bridge with a 6 year lifespan for each beam is insane.

Re: Hyperscalers have already outspent most famous US megaprojects

#140
post #124
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GDP adjustments are warranted, but it is more stark than both the estimates suggest. The megaprojects of the previous generations all had decades long depreciation schedules. Many 50-100+ year old railways, bridges, tunnels or dams and other utilities are still in active use with only minimal maintenance Amortized Y-o-Y the current spends would dwarf everything at the reported depreciation schedule of 6(!) years for…

The shovels and labour used to make those things where not depreciated. The GPUs are the shovels, not the project. AI at any capability will retain that capbibilty forever. It only gets reduced in value by superior developments. Which are built upon technologies that the previous generation developed.

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