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FSF trying to contact Google about spammer sending 10k+ mails from Gmail account

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Re: FSF trying to contact Google about spammer sending 10k+ mails from Gmail account

#131
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, they got it by Gmail being a loss leader paid by Google AdSense in the search engine. Now they have AdSense in Gmail directly, so I guess it pays for itself.

So, Google built a superior product that is profitable and we are supposed to be mad about this?

No, we should be mad at Google or any other BigTech taking over a big enough chunk of a federated system to basically dictate what can be sent/received and what not. With no human in the loop if you don't agree with their decisions.

Re: FSF trying to contact Google about spammer sending 10k+ mails from Gmail account

#132
post #54
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know if it's that simple. As a litmus test, try to set up your own mail server. See how many milliseconds it takes for it to be blacklisted by gmail. And then observe the response time for their support, when you try to clear up the confusion that google has about your intentions.

I run my own mail server, not blacklisted. Now I'm a bit of a special case, I know mail well. But when a moderately technical colleague wanted to do the same, I told her to use Mox, she set it up and Gmail doesn't block her either. So... would you please elaborate?

I find there are three peopls who comment about hosting email. A small group like us who set it up correctly and never have problems. A larger group who set it up but get the dns wrong and warn people not to. And a third bigger group who never tried but listen to the second group and always comment that you'll have 1% deliverability

Re: FSF trying to contact Google about spammer sending 10k+ mails from Gmail account

#133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone’s marketing emails are someone else’s spam. Mailchimp is specifically made for mass email emission, for marketing a newsletter and whatnot. So yeah, a lot of people will consider them spammers.

I think thats a really wrong definition of spam. Spam is untargeted junk from people you don't know, who are probably hiding there real identity using fake email headers etc. If it's a legit company with legit unsubscribe options, it's not spam. It worries me a lot that people clicking "mark as spam" on messages from legit companies because they subscribed to the newsletter will mean that my messages with important i…

> It worries me a lot that people clicking "mark as spam" on messages from legit companies because they subscribed to the newsletter will mean that my messages with important information (order confirmations, e-tickets etc.) will get blocked.

Don't send spam and I won't mark it as spam. I didn't sign up for your newsletter, don't send it to me. Creating an account or placing an order does not mean I agree to your spam.

Re: FSF trying to contact Google about spammer sending 10k+ mails from Gmail account

#134

I got a human being at Google to look into my problem and take action after sending a police report to Google‘s legal department certified mail return receipt along with a letter describing how someone was impersonating me and my business using a Gmail address in an attempt to commit fraud. Yes, it was a pain to take all of these steps and it probably took about 3 hours but it was absolutely necessary considering the…

Oh that's a good idea! I got locked out of my YouTube premium account and they kept charging me. Couldn't get in contact with anyone at YouTube because the YT premium support line is behind the YT login. So I had to change my credit card number. Somehow they still kept billing the card, so the credit card company said they'd have to close my account entirely to get Google to stop billing me for a service they wouldn'…

That's a built-in thing; Visa, MasterCard, Amex all have updater services that ensure trusted merchants get the replacement card seamlessly. This leads to annoying edge cases like yours.

https://stripe.com/resources/more/what-is-a-card-account-upd...

You can sometimes ask your bank to issue a card and not ping the updater service, but tier one support tends… not to know about it at all.

Re: FSF trying to contact Google about spammer sending 10k+ mails from Gmail account

#135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems to be a laughable claim? I don't get anything but spam from Mailchimp.

I don't think your definition of spam matches the one that I understand it to mean. Spam is random email from someone you have not had contact with before firing messages to every address they can find anywhere on the web, the dark web, etc. Or if you ask not to be added to a mailing list and are added anyway. They often use fraudulent tricks to try to get the email through filters, such as fake from addresses. Spam…

I get plenty of Mailchimp spam from people who have bought email lists and added me to their newsletter. It’s against their ToS, and I always indicate that I did not sign up for the list when I unsubscribe. Maybe it does something.

Re: FSF trying to contact Google about spammer sending 10k+ mails from Gmail account

#136
post #66

Google suspend email accounts that get lots of spam reports. It happens a couple of times a year for salespeople in my company who use Gmass (a bulk email sending tool). I mention it only as a useful data point, and in the absence of anyone else on the thread mentioning that Google have robust email abuse monitoring.

> Google have robust email abuse monitoring But only in Gmail then? Where is it possible to report a spam from a Gmail address received on a non-Gmail inbox? Google is being a real PITA as the receiving side for people who try to self-host their mail or who use small providers. They should at least be good citizen on the sending side, which it seems they're not. They are killing email.

https://support.google.com/mail/contact/abuse

You can use this form

>They should at least be good citizen on the sending side, which it seems they're not. They are killing email.

Eh? They do tons in anti-bot detection. But the value in exploiting and using Google's service is extremely high so bot authors are increasingly getting creative. Google stops running Gmail and simply another service becomes a high value target.

At least Microsoft fixed their Azure abuse after 10 years of not giving a fuck. It used to be stupid fucking easy to setup a trial O365 tenant and spam the fucking internet through "onmicrosoft.com" domains. And they let that go for 10 years.

Re: FSF trying to contact Google about spammer sending 10k+ mails from Gmail account

#137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems to be a laughable claim? I don't get anything but spam from Mailchimp.

I don't think your definition of spam matches the one that I understand it to mean. Spam is random email from someone you have not had contact with before firing messages to every address they can find anywhere on the web, the dark web, etc. Or if you ask not to be added to a mailing list and are added anyway. They often use fraudulent tricks to try to get the email through filters, such as fake from addresses. Spam…

* Spam is not email from legitimate companies with valid contact details that have an opt out that you forgot to click when you signed up with them. That's legitimate marketing emails. You might argue they also shouldn't exist, but they are a different category.*

No, they’re all spam. It’s just that some spam is significantly worse than others.

Edit:

this just reminded me of an interaction with a customer when I worked at a dialup ISP over 20 years ago. We would routinely get abuse reports about spam coming from our network that would turn out to be a family computer with a virus. We would disable their account until we got ahold of them, and then help them run antivirus or redirect them to a local shop to fix it.

But this one time my boss is like “Hey you wanna pretend you're the email manager? We have an actual spammer sending ads for a local business through our smtp servers”. We were all laughing at the audacity of it, they were sending thousands of the same message out, I think it was for a tackle shop.

When I called the guy to let him know why we disabled his account he immediately got angry at me, I vividly remember him saying “It’s not spam, it’s for a business!!” I explained to him that it doesn’t matter, it’s just as bad, and could get the whole company blacklisted from sending emails. Turns out his friend owned the business, and convinced him to install something that sent emails through outlook express.

The reason I got that duty is because I had no problem being confrontational back then. I remember telling him that I think he should be fined, and permanently banned from the internet. But that we’ll only let him back on if he uninstalls the thing.

He called back indignantly asking why we were allowing some other spam. I had to explain that it was from another network, and we’re trying to stop it, and that if every ISP were like us then it would barely be a problem.

I wonder if that business spams through google now.

Re: FSF trying to contact Google about spammer sending 10k+ mails from Gmail account

#138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, Mailchimp is a tool specifically built and advertised to send spam .

Mailchimp is for sending emails that people signed up to receive. If enough recipients click "unsubscribe", the whole email campaign gets suspended.

>Mailchimp is for sending emails that people signed up to receive.

that might be what it is for in a theoretical sense. but that is not how it is being used.

Re: FSF trying to contact Google about spammer sending 10k+ mails from Gmail account

#139

I got a human being at Google to look into my problem and take action after sending a police report to Google‘s legal department certified mail return receipt along with a letter describing how someone was impersonating me and my business using a Gmail address in an attempt to commit fraud. Yes, it was a pain to take all of these steps and it probably took about 3 hours but it was absolutely necessary considering the…

Oh that's a good idea! I got locked out of my YouTube premium account and they kept charging me. Couldn't get in contact with anyone at YouTube because the YT premium support line is behind the YT login. So I had to change my credit card number. Somehow they still kept billing the card, so the credit card company said they'd have to close my account entirely to get Google to stop billing me for a service they wouldn'…

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