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Someone bought 30 WordPress plugins and planted a backdoor in all of them

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Re: Someone bought 30 WordPress plugins and planted a backdoor in all of them

#131
post #48
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't this the same for maven, python, ruby projects too? I don't see this as a web only problem

Node is on another level though. It's cause they have no standard library.

How can node scripts write to files, make network requests, etc etc without any standard library? Of course it has a standard library. You could maybe say javascript doesn't have much of a standard library (Array, String, Promise, Error, etc) but js is used with a runtime that will have a standard library.

Re: Someone bought 30 WordPress plugins and planted a backdoor in all of them

#132

I really wish that the FAIR package manager project had been successful, but they recently gave up after the WordPress drama died down. https://fair.pm/ FAIR has a very interesting architecture, inspired by atproto, that I think has the potential to mitigate some of the supply-chain attacks we've seen recently. In FAIR, there's no central package repository. Anyone can run one, like an atproto PDS. Packages have DIDs…

Is FAIR wordpress-only?

Currently the reference implementation is for WordPress, but we’re working to bring it to Typo3 and other software at the moment too. The protocol is comprised of a core plus per-software extensions when needed.

Re: Someone bought 30 WordPress plugins and planted a backdoor in all of them

#133

This is a perfect illustration of what cracks me up about the hyperbolic reactions to Mythos. Yes, increased automation of cutting-edge vulnerability discovery will shake things up a bit. No, it's nowhere near the top of what should be keeping you awake at night if you're working in infosec. We've built our existing tech stacks and corporate governance structures for a different era. If you want to credit one specifi…

> This is a perfect illustration of what cracks me up about the hyperbolic reactions to Mythos. Yes, increased automation of cutting-edge vulnerability discovery will shake things up a bit. No, it's nowhere near the top of what should be keeping you awake at night if you're working in infosec.

Mythos will most likely not be the main thing that changes the infosec world, but AI in general will. Maybe in a few years or even decades, but I doubt it will just be another tool to have in our tool belt or another type of threat to consider.

> We've built our existing tech stacks and corporate governance structures for a different era. If you want to credit one specific development for making things dramatically worse, it's cryptocurrencies, not AI. [...]

One could argue it just accelerated everything. Without crypto it would still be possible to hack things and take the money out. It would require more manpower but it would be doable. Cash, wire transfers - nothing is perfectly secure. How are you going to prosecute someone in a foreign country like Russia or NK or even most Asian or African countries the West doesn't have strong relationships with? Even if you could, what's to stop the threat actors from bribing some poor person to take the fault if and when they're caught? If I'm a struggling farmer in Whateverstan, I'll happily take $50000 to give to my family in order to move millions to you.

And that acceleration of crime has positive aspects, too. Now a lot more people care about security. More care is given to making our infra and software in general more secure. Of course it's still insecure as shit, but I think it would be even more insecure if we didn't have cryptocurrency and the issues it brought with it.

Cryptocurrency has a few positives, too. Being able to drugs online (small, current positive) or to know that if shit hits the fan politically, we at least have the technological foundation to escape oppressive, corrupt and dysfunctional governments financially (big, potential positive), even for a while, until we get out shit together financially. It hasn't happened yet, but since even a lot of laypeople know about cryptocurrency, it's possible it could help some people somewhere in the future.

It's similar with privacy - if no one abused the data we gave them, we wouldn't have as many laws about data privacy and we wouldn't have as many people who care about their privacy. You can argue that we're at the point of no return because there are trackers and cameras everywhere, both public and private. That's similar, but a bit different since it's an already established infrastructure. It's harder to fight against something like that but if we do, we could still change it. Perhaps another acceleration in that direction is what we need - mass invasion of privacy so we can collectively wake up and dismantle the current status quo.

Re: Someone bought 30 WordPress plugins and planted a backdoor in all of them

#134

I really wish that the FAIR package manager project had been successful, but they recently gave up after the WordPress drama died down. https://fair.pm/ FAIR has a very interesting architecture, inspired by atproto, that I think has the potential to mitigate some of the supply-chain attacks we've seen recently. In FAIR, there's no central package repository. Anyone can run one, like an atproto PDS. Packages have DIDs…

Assuming that the majority of repositories will be malware with SEO hooks, how would one locate a safe directory using only a search engine (as opposed to whispered tips from coworkers, etc)? I don’t see how proliferation of repositories improves things for users. (Certainly, it does serve up the usual freedom-from-regulation dreams on a silver platter, but that’s value-neutral from a usability perspective.)

The aggregators can choose who to index, and we operate one at fair.pm - the idea being that you only federate repositories that meet requirements, and can defederate those which are bad actors. (End users can install directly from repositories though, and can always switch the aggregator if they find the rules too restrictive - no lock-in.)

Re: Someone bought 30 WordPress plugins and planted a backdoor in all of them

#136
Legal questions...

In browser plugins and mobile apps (and maybe WordPress plugins?), it's pretty well known that malware attackers buying those is a frequent thing, and a serious threat. So:

1. So is there an argument to be made that a developer/publisher/marketplace selling such software, after it has established a reputation and an installed base, may have an obligation to make some level of effort not to sell out their users to malware/criminals?

2. Do we already have some parties developing software with the intention of selling it to malware/criminals, planning that selling it will insulate them from being considered a co-conspirator or accessory?

Re: Someone bought 30 WordPress plugins and planted a backdoor in all of them

#138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll say depends. Personally, my hobby projects are about me, just shared with the world because I believe in Free Software. Yet, I'm not obliged to deliver anything to anyone. I'll develop the tool up to the point of my own needs and standards. I'm not on a time budget, I don't care. Yes, I personally try to reach to the level of best ones out there, but I don't have a time budget. It's a best effort thing.

In reality you are always on a time budget that is correlated with the output of the software you develop.(I.e is it worth it your time?) I’ve found out that the most important thing is to get feedback early even from yourself using whatever software you develop. If you develop a small effort piece of software you can ship it before other stuff is starting to compete for your time. But if it takes a year or more befo…

I think we tackle the same problem in different ways. For me, if something is not urgent, I do it in a best effort way, and the shipping time doesn't matter.

I generally judge whether I allocate time for something or not depending on the utility and general longevity of the tool. I hack high utility / short life tools, but give proper effort to long life tools I need. As a side-effect, a long life tool can start very crude and can develop over time to something more polished, making its development time pretty elastic and effort almost negligible on the long run.

For me shipping time is both very long (I tend to take notes and design a tool before writing it), yet almost instant: when I decide that the design is enough for V1, I just pull my template and fill in the blanks, getting a MVP for myself. Then I can add missing features one at a time, and polish the code step by step.

Currently I'm contemplating another tool which is simple in idea, but a bit messy in execution (low level / system programming is always like that), but when it's design is over, the only thing I'll do it is to implement it piece by piece, without no time crunch, because I know it'll be long-living tool.

I can time-share my other hobbies, but I have a few of them. I do this for fun. No need to torture myself. And, I can't realize my all ideas. Some doesn't make sense, some doesn't worth it, some will be eclipsed by other things.

That's life, that's fine.

Re: Someone bought 30 WordPress plugins and planted a backdoor in all of them

#139
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And with this much at stake, they can afford to simply buy your software dependencies, or to offer one of your employees some retirement money in exchange for making a "mistake". LAPSUS$ was prolific by just bribing employees with admin access. This is far from theoretical. Just imagine the kind of money your average nation state has laying around to bribe someone with internal access.

I started to write a comment about how low they probably were able to bribe people for but found this article [0] which put the number higher than I expected: > One of the core LAPSUS$ members who used the nicknames “Oklaqq” and “WhiteDoxbin” posted recruitment messages to Reddit last year, offering employees at AT&T, T-Mobile and Verizon up to $20,000 a week to perform “inside jobs.” That said, this is but one insta…

The cost for access can be surprisingly low. Not all that many years ago it was pretty cheap to pay an editor at wiki or DMOZ or any of a few dozen other 'trusted sources' on the internet to get something added, or removed. I stopped traveling in those circles a long time ago, but I know that they are still very active and the cost is still surprisingly low.

While not code level access, these sorts of things are far more common than anyone wants to admit to.

Re: Someone bought 30 WordPress plugins and planted a backdoor in all of them

#140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdata from a JS developer who has been in this ecosystem for 14 years. I'm actively moving away from Node.js and JavaScript in general. This has been triggered by recent spike in supply chain attacks. Backend: I'm choosing to use Golang, since it has one of the most complete standard libraries. This means I don't have to install 3rd party libraries for common tasks. It is also quite performant, and has great suppo…

> React happily also has 0 dependencies, Ok, but it has 112 devDependencies, I'm not really sure "0 dependencies" best describes React.

Those are not installed.
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