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They're made out of meat (1991)

terrybisson.com

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Re: They're made out of meat (1991)

#131

Post by tomhow »

nofunsir wrote: post #130
tomhow wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a reproach at all! We do this all the time when something has appeared before on HN, so that people can look at older threads if they're interested. It's significant signal that a particular post has appeared repeatedly on HN over the nearly two decades we've existed. It's also interesting to see how the style of discussion about the topic may have changed over time.

It's already a feature (click the link domain).

That isn't always a simple, reliable way of finding the historical submissions of the article. Sometimes it's on a domain that has had many other submissions. Sometimes the domain has changed or the content appears in different forms in different places.

It's a longstanding convention to do this, and the audience appreciates it. Not sure why anyone would take issue with it.

Re: They're made out of meat (1991)

#132

Post by brucehoult »

ceejayoz wrote: post #119
the_af wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And they do say they’ve studied and probed for several human lifetimes. Only one of them has. The other is entirely surprised by the whole concept, and wouldn't even entertain disguising itself as something it has never considered and in fact it's being convinced during the story it even exists. It's important for the story to work that one of the beings is entirely unconvinced and has to be told, as they discuss t…

The one that looks super goofy? He’s dressed like someone told “hey you have to try to blend in” and didn’t really know how.

Picking the right name is also important to blending in. For example: Ford Prefect.

Re: They're made out of meat (1991)

#133

Post by hyperhello »

tomhow wrote: post #131
nofunsir wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's already a feature (click the link domain).

That isn't always a simple, reliable way of finding the historical submissions of the article. Sometimes it's on a domain that has had many other submissions. Sometimes the domain has changed or the content appears in different forms in different places. It's a longstanding convention to do this, and the audience appreciates it. Not sure why anyone would take issue with it.

It does appear a bit mechanical, like something the system would do. Maybe a submission should always automatically find all previous discussions as an automatic comment.

Re: They're made out of meat (1991)

#134

Post by the_af »

emmelaich wrote: post #125
the_af wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the story, the very idea of permanently meat-based beings appals them, and in fact one of them doesn't entirely believe it. So why would they look like meat to "blend in", a priori, if one of them doesn't even fathom the idea? "Blend in" with what? One of them doesn't believe what it's dealing with! Like a sibling comment mentions, they talk about "meat sounds"... using meat sounds! Why would they find it surprisi…

It's partly for dramatic purposes, to slow the realisation of the audience that they are aliens talking about people. And, ofc, in-drama logic; the beings (of silicon or whatever) are/were blending in with humans to study them.

You have a point. Maybe if I hadn't read the story first it would work better for me.

In the story, there's little doubt these are aliens (though their physical form, if they have any, is never described). If there's any doubt, it's about what they are talking about -- but this is dispelled pretty soon too.

I think the real reason is simply budget.

I can understand the limitations of working around budget, and constraints sometimes spark some inventive storytelling, like in the pretty cool "The Booth at the End", which has a very similar minimalistic setting in a diner! In fact, this short somewhat reminded me of that much better show.

(If you haven't watched "The Booth at the End", I strongly encourage you to do so... it used to be free online ages ago, not sure now).

Re: They're made out of meat (1991)

#136

Post by kelnos »

jounker wrote: post #97
Aperocky wrote: post #73

This is fun to read but any such galactic intelligence would probably recognize that its predecessor were meat, probably kept the original meat safe in a corner of the galaxy too.. The universe were quite uniform in character. Galaxies, stars, they are very predictable and essentially the same everywhere, across billions of years (both time and distance), can't see why that doesn't apply to life too in a general sens…

I think the point is that the story’s universe is populated by intelligent life forms that did not evolve from any lineage of meat. Hence the reference at the end to the hydrogen cluster.

The race of meat people are humans, though. So it's our universe.

Re: They're made out of meat (1991)

#137

Post by kelnos »

mortenjorck wrote: post #12

As I’ve gotten older, it’s become increasingly hard for me to understand how anyone can read such comical reductionism as enlightenment. We are infinitely complex arrangements of systems built upon systems, from the quantum properties of carbon atoms up through the proteins that make the “meat” we are so glibly reduced to, through the complexities and adaptations of mammalian bodies, up to the fearsome order of the h…

You must be fun at parties.

It's comedy. You might not find it funny, but it's rather small-minded to suggest that no one else could find it funny.

Re: They're made out of meat (1991)

#138

Post by outworlder »

axus wrote: post #105
AlwaysRock wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"probed them all the way through. They're completely meat." The two talking, and other races, are machines that cover themselves however they like. These two are machines with artificial skins. That is normal. Fully meat beings are not. At least that is how I always read this story.

Machines with artificial skins? I'll have to re-read the story, I thought the "meat" was matter and the aliens were made of energy.

No, it's literal meat that they have issues with. Machines are fine, hydrogen clusters are fine.

Re: They're made out of meat (1991)

#139

Post by outworlder »

babblingfish wrote: post #58
glitchc wrote: post #33

Earlier I found it awe-inspiring. Nowadays I find it funny because we have yet to even remotely approach the complexity of meat.

It's amazing how consciousness remains a mystery given all the scientific progress over the last 100 years

Consciousness had millions of years headstart. Give it time.

Re: They're made out of meat (1991)

#140

Post by outworlder »

Aperocky wrote: post #73

This is fun to read but any such galactic intelligence would probably recognize that its predecessor were meat, probably kept the original meat safe in a corner of the galaxy too.. The universe were quite uniform in character. Galaxies, stars, they are very predictable and essentially the same everywhere, across billions of years (both time and distance), can't see why that doesn't apply to life too in a general sens…

> This is fun to read but any such galactic intelligence would probably recognize that its predecessor were meat

That does not follow at all. It's _likely_ that life elsewhere would be carbon-based since carbon is so useful and common. It is not a requirement. Silicon has been proposed as a replacement. While not as flexible as carbon, it's pretty close. Silicon-based lifeforms wouldn't be "organic" at all. Even if we just stick to carbon, there are many organic compounds (and lifeforms) that aren't anything close to what we would consider 'meat'.

We are working with N=1. Until we find more lifeforms elsewhere, we can't assume anything beyond basic physics and chemistry. RNA isn't a given. A lifeforms probably needs something that will pass along instructions to their offspring (in whatever form they take). It doesn't have to be RNA.

For a fictional description of a lifeforms that doesn't have RNA, DNA or anything remotely similar, I like to point out Blindsight, by Peter Watts. https://www.rifters.com/real/Blindsight.htm

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