Fear and denial in Silicon Valley over social media addiction trial • Hacker News Board

Re: Fear and denial in Silicon Valley over social media addiction trial

#131

Post by techblueberry » Sat, Mar 28, 2026, 3:48 AM UTC

troad wrote: post #75

jimmyjazz14 wrote: post #64

I have no love for social media, but I also really don't like the idea of the government regulating how apps are designed, or trying to circumnavigate online privacy to "protect children" which where I see this whole thing going. On another note, personally I'm not sure I buy the "addictive" argument with social media, maybe its just me but I find social media pretty boring, but I think for a lot of younger people it…

It's wild to me how many people are willing to throw basic civil liberties overboard because they don't like the other guys. Today's media circus is about addictive social media. Before that it was video games and rock music and D&D clubs. Before that it the Satanic panic of the 80s, gay 'recruitment', Soviet spies. Much before that it was witches and heretics. And so on and so on, forever. If you have a choice, mayb…

This is a completely false equivalence. No one’s trying to regulate an activity they’re trying to regulate the unhinged behavior of trillion dollar companies.

How many people who played DND or video games or music or any of the other things you listed regretted it afterwards? How many people playing DND would say “I wish I was out with my friends because this game is too addictive”. None, because they were with their friends!!

The closest thing would be cigarettes. And while I think cigarettes should be legal normalized and plentiful, I’m aware enough not to attack the movement that marginalized them.

No one is talking about content here, and to emphasize the point, I think no one is really defending social media, for all the examples you gave it was an activity no one understood except the small group of people whom it gave meaning. Everyone understands social media and most people hate it.

And in fact, I might go so far as to say you’re directionally incorrect. Social media is the force that killed speech, that killed the things that made DND and punk music and transgressive video games possible. Social media is the victory of those people who wanted to normalize the abnrormal.

Re: Fear and denial in Silicon Valley over social media addiction trial

#132

Post by maxaw » Sat, Mar 28, 2026, 3:49 AM UTC

twoodfin wrote: post #100

bigDinosaur wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You dropped the second half of my sentence which pointed to a specific harm. You consequently argued against something which I didn't say. You are not arguing in good faith and this 'conversation' has clearly run its course as you are not capable of engaging the actual points someone is making. Someone saying that someone shouldn't be able to promote specific harm x is not saying that the idea of 'promotion' of anyth…

OK, sorry, so using behavioral psychology to encourage an audience to stay on the couch watching TV for prolonged periods should be illegal? This is the Netflix business model, right now.

The difference is that the media is 30 seconds not 2 hours so the feedback loop is shorter and the content pool is far far far deeper because it is user submitted so the content recommendation algorithms become so effective , and the experience so compelling, that it becomes addictive. And as a wise man once said “a difference in scale is a difference in kind”

Re: Fear and denial in Silicon Valley over social media addiction trial

#133

Post by troad » Sat, Mar 28, 2026, 3:50 AM UTC

alex1138 wrote: post #120

troad wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's wild to me how many people are willing to throw basic civil liberties overboard because they don't like the other guys. Today's media circus is about addictive social media. Before that it was video games and rock music and D&D clubs. Before that it the Satanic panic of the 80s, gay 'recruitment', Soviet spies. Much before that it was witches and heretics. And so on and so on, forever. If you have a choice, mayb…

Perhaps but then you get stuff like this https://bradfrost.com/blog/post/facebook-you-needy-sonofabit... They need to play fair or GTFO

You get stuff like... obnoxious notifications?

Duolingo's notifications are borderline emotional blackmail ("don't make the owl sad!"), and Duolingo is a vastly profitable company that expressly targets school-aged children. But because it's not social media, it's... fine?

What does playing fair even mean in this context?

Re: Fear and denial in Silicon Valley over social media addiction trial

#134

Post by twoodfin » Sat, Mar 28, 2026, 3:50 AM UTC

fc417fc802 wrote: post #125

twoodfin wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So any producer of X should be regulated or otherwise held liable for the injuries of unhealthy individuals who misuse X?

Depends. Was the product intentionally designed to be that way? The addition of caffeine to soda is the closest example that immediately comes to mind but in that case many individuals are specifically seeking the additive. There are many physical products that are today designed to minimize harm and misuse after facing liability historically. So I suppose the direct answer to your question would be "yes, absolutely,…

What do you mean by “be this way”?

There’s somebody out there who’s harmfully addicted to just about anything, from ultramarathons to World of Warcraft.

What’s the limiting principle on liability?

Re: Fear and denial in Silicon Valley over social media addiction trial

#135

Post by techblueberry » Sat, Mar 28, 2026, 3:52 AM UTC

twoodfin wrote: post #87

kjkjadksj wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At some point we limit your freedom of expression to do things like dump toxic waste up river. This ought to be no different. The poisoning of the american mind for profit.

The traditional solution to speech you don’t like is more speech you do like.

No one is trying to regulate speech. And actually, the traditional solution was a duel to the death.

Re: Fear and denial in Silicon Valley over social media addiction trial

#136

Post by alex1138 » Sat, Mar 28, 2026, 3:53 AM UTC

troad wrote: post #133

alex1138 wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps but then you get stuff like this https://bradfrost.com/blog/post/facebook-you-needy-sonofabit... They need to play fair or GTFO

You get stuff like... obnoxious notifications? Duolingo's notifications are borderline emotional blackmail ("don't make the owl sad!"), and Duolingo is a vastly profitable company that expressly targets school-aged children. But because it's not social media, it's... fine? What does playing fair even mean in this context?

It's not just that, it's also outright black hat behavior like https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4151433

Re: Fear and denial in Silicon Valley over social media addiction trial

#137

Post by twoodfin » Sat, Mar 28, 2026, 3:53 AM UTC

techblueberry wrote: post #135

twoodfin wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The traditional solution to speech you don’t like is more speech you do like.

No one is trying to regulate speech. And actually, the traditional solution was a duel to the death.

What else could “at some point we limit your freedom of expression” possibly mean?

Re: Fear and denial in Silicon Valley over social media addiction trial

#138

Post by fc417fc802 » Sat, Mar 28, 2026, 3:53 AM UTC

dolebirchwood wrote: post #90

maxaw wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t know a single person who after exposure to short form video has not had to exert special effort to regulate their consumption.

Is this a young people thing? I'm 40. I have never liked Shorts. What am I supposed to get out of 10 seconds of video? And all the sudden jump-cuts, and big obnoxious one-word-at-a-time subtitles... They're all literally unwatchable.

I find casinos unpleasant but plenty of people obviously don't. I also find games with a narrow FoV unpleasant; I was never able to enjoy DotA 2 because of this and League was only just barely tolerable. Similarly I detest modern web design and gravitate towards sites with an HN or spreadsheet style information dense layout.

I think that's all related, is at least partially a matter of what I'm accustomed to, but is largely just an inherent part of how I am.

Re: Fear and denial in Silicon Valley over social media addiction trial

#139

Post by techblueberry » Sat, Mar 28, 2026, 3:53 AM UTC

rudhdb773b wrote: post #122

czhu12 wrote: post #84

What would be an actually good faith way of regulating this short of banning it for children (which I’d think is fine). How do you define what is too addictive? At any given time it seems like whatever is defined as the most addictive is just the one with most market share? For me personally I think most addictive is actually hacker news (god bless you all)

Why regulate? Look at the failure that is the "war on drugs". The solution is education. The government should be educating society and especially parents on how to protect their children. Education worked to cut cigarette use, and is starting to lower alcohol consumption as well. It can work for social media without all the negative impacts on civil liberties that come with regulations.

“Education worked to cut cigarette use”

I mean, they banned it from most public locations first.

Re: Fear and denial in Silicon Valley over social media addiction trial

#140

Post by troad » Sat, Mar 28, 2026, 3:53 AM UTC

techblueberry wrote: post #131

troad wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's wild to me how many people are willing to throw basic civil liberties overboard because they don't like the other guys. Today's media circus is about addictive social media. Before that it was video games and rock music and D&D clubs. Before that it the Satanic panic of the 80s, gay 'recruitment', Soviet spies. Much before that it was witches and heretics. And so on and so on, forever. If you have a choice, mayb…

This is a completely false equivalence. No one’s trying to regulate an activity they’re trying to regulate the unhinged behavior of trillion dollar companies. How many people who played DND or video games or music or any of the other things you listed regretted it afterwards? How many people playing DND would say “I wish I was out with my friends because this game is too addictive”. None, because they were with their…

>> How many people who played DND or video games or music or any of the other things you listed regretted it afterwards? How many people playing DND would say “I wish I was out with my friends because this game is too addictive”. None, because they were with their friends!!

Lol. Tell me you weren't around for the D&D panic without saying you weren't around for the D&D panic.

This was precisely the argument used. "These kids should be out, running around, climbing trees! They're missing their childhoods! Here's Becky, age 15, to tell us how much happier she is now that she's hanging out with her girlfriends at the park, instead of summoning demons in her parents' basement."

And everyone bought it in exactly the same way that they buy the social media teen panic now. There were developmental psychologists on TV to explain how harmful D&D was to the kids' sensitive developing brains, how it was a gateway drug to all sorts of destructive self-behaviours, how parents were just so gosh dang powerless to do anything about it (all their friends are doing it!), and how the state needed to step in NOW! Sound familiar?

Honestly, you've seen it once, you've seen all there is to see. The social media panic has all the characteristics of any other moral panic. Some unpopular thing is alleged to be hurting children, and if you support it, then you're probably some kind of child abuser. Because we're all so perfectly rational, we all know our suspicions are 'directionally correct', to borrow your beautifully Orwellian turn of phrase. Certainly nothing to do with the ceaseless drum of narratives directed against social media that we imbibe from every external conduit - films, TV, newspapers - and live and breathe and occupy as though it were reality. Hey did you see that Netflix show Adolescence, about the harms of social media? It's fiction, but it really createscaptures the moment. It's just so directionally correct, you know?

Not like our prejudices can ever be echoed back to us through our own media, in an ever shriller feedback loop. No need to build up any defenses against that sort of thing. Grab those pitchforks.