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Hong Kong police can now demand phone passwords under new security rules

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Re: Hong Kong police can now demand phone passwords under new security rules

#131

Post by gruez »

gib444 wrote: post #24
andylynch wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are you misrepresenting about UK law? Yes, it can be a criminal offence. But the maximum tariff for this under RIPA 2000 is five years. If it’s not about nation security or CSAM, it’s two. (Incidentally, the USA is a real outlier in this topic)

Oh just 5 years, that's OK then.

It's not okay to imprison people for 5 years vs lifetime, but at the same time, facts matter, and we shouldn't get in the habit of allowing fibs to slip through just because they're directionally correct.

Re: Hong Kong police can now demand phone passwords under new security rules

#132

Post by wuschel »

kleiba wrote: post #23

It would be nice if phones had a feature where you can define more than one pin, but only one is for your actual phone contents - the other ones leave you to a completely harmless but otherwise indistinguishable looking smartphone interface that contains no or only completely bogus data.

One should be able to define a PIN number that wipes your phone.

Re: Hong Kong police can now demand phone passwords under new security rules

#133

Post by gruez »

fn-mote wrote: post #104
wat10000 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't approve of CBP's approach here, but being denied entry to the country isn't punishment, even if it might feel like it at the time. And that only applies to non-citizens, where entry is fairly reasonably at the government's discretion. Citizens must be admitted regardless. Rules at the border tend to be pretty restrictive almost everywhere. You can literally get in trouble for having a sandwich in your bag. I'…

Do you ever travel outside your own country? Do you think you should retain some basic privacy rights while you do that? It’s not even good for business. Business laptops and phones have trade secrets to conduct regular company activities. Normalizing the surveillance dystopia we live in ON HN is beyond my understanding.

>Do you ever travel outside your own country? Do you think you should retain some basic privacy rights while you do that?

You already don't. Even in countries with protections against arbitrary search and seizure, those go out the window when you're at the border. "No" isn't a valid response if border agents wants to search your luggage.

Re: Hong Kong police can now demand phone passwords under new security rules

#134

Post by gruez »

0x3f wrote: post #22
gruez wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>in the US and UK ??? Of all the issues with the US justice system, being compelled to disclose passwords isn't one of them. It is an issue for UK, though.

Depends, you can get NSL'd to disclose passwords. Good luck running that one up to the supreme court. And biometrics aren't as well-protected. Though, yes, in the UK it's a much more routine affair.

>Depends, you can get NSL'd to disclose passwords

Source? Given 5th amendment protections I'm guessing this only covers snitching on others, but that's standard subpoena law. If you're issued a subpoena to produce documents on someone else (eg. a customer of yours), you can't refuse. It's called protection against "self-incrimination" for a reason.

Re: Hong Kong police can now demand phone passwords under new security rules

#135

Post by NoImmatureAdHom »

Scaled wrote: post #105
NoImmatureAdHom wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't have the protections of U.S. law at the border. CBP is also asking , not compelling. You don't have to give them your password. If you don't, and you're a foreigner, you may be turned away. If you're a citizen, and I remember correctly, they can seize your device for up to two days if they want. But they're not going to put you in prison for refusing like the U.K. and Hong Kong will.

If you're a US citizen, I believe they can seize your device indefinitely, and detain you for up to two days. They are required to let you eventually back into the country though. (If you're not a citizen, all bets are off)

Here's what the ACLU says:

https://www.aclu.org/news/privacy-technology/can-border-agen...

I think the 48h detention is across the board (without a judge involved, border or not the border). ACLU says device seizure is up to 5 days barring "extenuating circumstances", whatever that means.

Re: Hong Kong police can now demand phone passwords under new security rules

#136

Post by iamnothere »

whatsupdog wrote: post #98
iamnothere wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your country has this problem, you’re way past worrying about phones, and you need to be acquiring arms and training.

It's illegal to have any decently good arms in Canada.

If you live in a country where the police will beat you to extract a confession, it may be time to start violating the law.

(To my knowledge this is not the case in Canada.)

Re: Hong Kong police can now demand phone passwords under new security rules

#137

Post by kubb »

dmitrygr wrote: post #119
kubb wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry, but you're not coherent. You're saying anti-uk posts, you're linking some heavily editorialized article from a highly ideological media outlet about an arrest "allegedly over criticising anti-trans activists". So not anti-UK posts. The arrest doesn't seem to have lead to any conviction. So not years of jail and reeducation camps like you get in China for dissent. This is exactly what I'm talking about. You…

arrest == arrest You are most welcome to google "UK arrest for criticizing" and find articles you consider less biased. There are so many to choose from

I did that. There are no arrests for criticizing on the first page of Google.

Judging by your previous reactions, you're going to say that your Google is different, and link some news story about an arrest that isn't for criticizing and instead for supporting terrorism.

Hate to break to you that not every arrest is the same. Some include beating, and lead to jail time. Some include questioning and they lead to the arrested walking free within the day.

So you're hyperfocusing on the UK's online posting, which has nothing to do with the original subject of phone passwords, and doesn't even happen in other European countries, because UK has more proactive monitoring of online spaces by police.

And this is your proof that Europe is a tyrranical dictatorship.

Re: Hong Kong police can now demand phone passwords under new security rules

#138

Post by whatsupdog »

iamnothere wrote: post #136
whatsupdog wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's illegal to have any decently good arms in Canada.

If you live in a country where the police will beat you to extract a confession, it may be time to start violating the law. (To my knowledge this is not the case in Canada.)

> To my knowledge this is not the case in Canada.

Not yet. But with them changing the law to enlist foreigners (who, of course, will care less about Canadians and their rights) in the armed forces, it will change soon.

Re: Hong Kong police can now demand phone passwords under new security rules

#139

Post by mstaoru »

jonex wrote: post #21

Feature request: Make it default behavior on phones that you can have multiple passwords, connected to different profiles. With no way to determine how many profiles a phone have. I'm sure there's some people here working on mobile operating systems, might be worth considering?

This whole PRC law (system) is designed to condemn already targeted individuals, there's no big difference if there's nothing on the phone. Chinese laws are specifically formulated in this pattern: "A, B, C, or at the discretion of the relevant authorities". Since there's no attorney-client privilege in PRC, once you're targeted, the "discretion" can always be found.

Re: Hong Kong police can now demand phone passwords under new security rules

#140

Post by QuantumFunnel »

gruez wrote: post #129
halJordan wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

>No citation needed, it should be common knowledge like stopping at a stop sign. Sounds like you can't (or are unwilling) to produce evidence, and you're trying to handwave that issue away with "it's common knowledge'.

https://lordslibrary.parliament.uk/select-communications-off...

How convenient that the government doesn't make the numbers public and then have to issue statements like this when journalists do some digging on the matter

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