Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, Wine is truly a miracle. Once full support for Office is achieved, we should expect huge uptick in Linux adoption.
> full support for office does microsoft still sell office?
[deleted]
Wine 11 rewrites how Linux runs Windows games at kernel with massive speed gains
131–140 of 512 posts
Re: Wine 11 rewrites how Linux runs Windows games at kernel with massive speed gains
#132Earlier quoted context omitted.
Most people? What mainstream Linux distros ship without fsync or esync support?
I would assume most of them? I'd be surprised if distros like Debian, Ubuntu, Fedora, etc. would ship non-mainline kernel features like that. Sure, gaming-focused distros, or distros like Arch or Gentoo might (optionally or otherwise), but mainstream ? Probably not. Of course, esync doesn't require kernel patches, so I imagine that was more broadly out there. But it sounds like fsync got you performance pretty close…
> I would assume most of them? I'd be surprised if distros like Debian, Ubuntu, Fedora, etc. would ship non-mainline kernel features like that.
It's best not to assume with these things. With my stock Debian Stable kernel, Proton says this:
fsync: up and running.
And when I disable fsync, it says this:
esync: up and running.
> But it sounds like fsync got you performance pretty close to what ntsync can do, but esync was quite a bit behind both?
No, esync and fsync trade blows in performance. Here are some measurements taken by Kron4ek, who maintains somewhat widely used Wine/Proton builds:
https://web.archive.org/web/20250315200334/https://flightles...
https://web.archive.org/web/20250315200424/https://flightles...
https://web.archive.org/web/20250315200419/https://flightles...
> With vanilla being quite a bit behind esync?
Yes, vanilla Wine has historically fallen behind all of them, of course.
> Also, jeez, fsync, what a terrible name. fsync is a syscall that has to do with filesystem data. So confusing.
We can agree on this. :)
Re: Wine 11 rewrites how Linux runs Windows games at kernel with massive speed gains
#133Earlier quoted context omitted.
> full support for office does microsoft still sell office?
Yes, Microsoft does still sell MS Office 2024 as a one time purchase: - https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-365/p/office-home-... - https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-365/p/office-home-...
Outlook is a business exclusive these days?! Outlook used to be included in the most basic version of office back when I still used microsoft office.
Re: Wine 11 rewrites how Linux runs Windows games at kernel with massive speed gains
#134Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, Wine is truly a miracle. Once full support for Office is achieved, we should expect huge uptick in Linux adoption.
> full support for office does microsoft still sell office?
Yes the do have an one time purchase option. You get 5 years of updates but no new features. I have it on my home computers. But new features are not a big deal since the differences are not big anymore (just like mobile phones.)
Re: Wine 11 rewrites how Linux runs Windows games at kernel with massive speed gains
#135Reading these posts always make me feel like an imposter. People are dealing with such low level things, while i'm outta here building simple CRUDs.
Don't feel too bad - I had to Google what CRUD means. :D
Re: Wine 11 rewrites how Linux runs Windows games at kernel with massive speed gains
#136Re: Wine 11 rewrites how Linux runs Windows games at kernel with massive speed gains
#137Wine is a project that I've grown a near-infinite level of respect for. I don't know for sure, but I suspect that a lot of the work for Wine is boring and thankless. Digging through and trying to get exact parity with both the documented and undocumented behavior of Windows for the past 30 years doesn't sound fun, but it's finding every little weird edge case that makes Wine a viable product. The fact that Wine runs…
I've tried to use Wine in order to play Steam Windows games on Mac.
Wine silently exposes all my macos drives as D:/F:/etc that was open to any game I started.
Immediately removed Wine.
Awful experience.
Re: Wine 11 rewrites how Linux runs Windows games at kernel with massive speed gains
#138Earlier quoted context omitted.
Plenty of operating systems work like this. Just not highly commercial ones because proprietary software is the norm on those. From a bit of research it looks like FreeBSD for example only provides a stable ABI within minor versions and I imagine if you build something for FreeBSD 14 it won’t work on 13. Stable ABI literally only benefits software where the user doesn’t have the source. Any operating system which ass…
Yes, and this is a great reason why FreeBSD isn't a popular gaming platform, or for proprietary software in general. I'm not saying this is a bad thing, but... that's why. > Stable ABI literally only benefits software where the user doesn’t have the source. It also benefits people who don't want to have to do busywork every time the OS updates.
FreeBSD isn't too bad, you can build/install compat packages back to FreeBSD 4.x, and I'd expect things to largely work. At previous jobs we would mostly build our software for the oldest FreeBSD version we ran and distribute it to hosts running newer FreeBSD releases and outside some exceptional cases, it would work. But you'd have to either only use base libraries, or be careful about distribution of the libraries you depend on. You can't really use anything from ports, unless you do the same build on oldest and distribute plan.
At Yahoo, we'd build on 4.3-4.8, and run on 4.x - 8.x. At WhatsApp, I think I remember mostly building on 8.x and 9.x, for 8.x - 11.x. The only thing that I remember causing major problems was extending the bitmask for CPU pinning; there were a couple updates where old software + old kernel CPU pinning would work, and old software + new kernel CPU pinning failed; eventually upstream made that better as long as you don't run old software on a system with more cores than fit in the bitmask. I'm sure there were a few other issues, but I don't remember them ...
Re: Wine 11 rewrites how Linux runs Windows games at kernel with massive speed gains
#139I'll be very interested to see how this plays out with final 3rd-party benchmarks. Now if we can just get some decent Nvidia drivers......
What's wrong with the Nvidia drivers for Linux?
In practically every benchmark the Linux Nvidia drivers notably underperform compared to the windows driver.
Re: Wine 11 rewrites how Linux runs Windows games at kernel with massive speed gains
#140> Dirt 3 went from 110.6 FPS to 860.7 FPS > Resident Evil 2 jumped from 26 FPS to 77 FPS > Call of Juarez went from 99.8 FPS to 224.1 FPS > Tiny Tina's Wonderlands saw gains from 130 FPS to 360 FPS Amazing. I don't understand the low level details on how such a massive speed gain was ripe for the picking but I welcome! I guess thanks Valve for pouring money into Proton.
So, what's the relationship between Wine and Proton? Is Proton just the SteamOS/Valve name for it, or is it actually it's own project?
It's a distribution of Wine with some extra stuff added, importantly DXVK (directx => vulkan layer) and a lot of game specific workarounds.