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FCC updates covered list to include foreign-made consumer routers

fcc.gov

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Re: FCC updates covered list to include foreign-made consumer routers

#131

Post by AnthonyMouse »

walterbell wrote: post #119
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We don't care about their licenses; that's their problem. If they need firmware with a license that allows them to redistribute it there are plenty of free ones to choose from. And you can't wait until after they're dead to have them do something. By then they're gone or judgment proof because they're already bankrupt. Especially when you're talking about companies that aren't in the jurisdiction because you can't ev…

> It has to be from Day 1. There was a promising design from Azure Sphere for 10 years of IoT device Linux security updates from Microsoft, even if the IoT vendor went out of business. This required a hardware design to isolate vendor userspace code from device security code, so they could be updated independently. Could be resurrected as open standard with FRAND licensing.

The main thing you need is for the lowest-level code to be open and replaceable/patchable because it's the only part which is actually specific to the device. Windows running on Core Boot is a better place to be than custom Linux running on opaque blob, because in the first case you can pretty easily get to newer Windows, vanilla Linux or anything else you want running on Core Boot after the original version of Windows goes out of support, and you can update Core Boot, whereas the latter often can't even get you to a newer version of Linux.

Re: FCC updates covered list to include foreign-made consumer routers

#133

Post by KennyBlanken »

dmitrygr wrote: post #27
WarOnPrivacy wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> how do you prove the firmware in the flash chip matches source? Trusted, qualified independent experts: Ala Underwriters Laboratories.

One word for you: dieselgate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_emissions_scandal

Friendly reminder that _all_ automakers - European, American, and Asian - had been doing this emissions cheating for decades.

Detection of the car being on a rolling road, special button combos that trigger the emissions testing map, etc

Re: FCC updates covered list to include foreign-made consumer routers

#134

Post by dlcarrier »

For the device manufacturers, the obvious solution is to sell them as general-purpose computers. You can already get devices that had started out as Raspberry Pi clones but evolved into excellent DIY network appliances, with multiple high-speed Ethernet and SSD ports that are great for running a NAS, proxy server, firewall, or all three, and more. Rarely do they have good WiFi, but if manufacturers start selling hardware that has been traditionally sold as a locked-down routers or access points, but include a generic Linux installation, it'll compete will well with the aforementioned hardware.

Re: FCC updates covered list to include foreign-made consumer routers

#135

Post by supernetworks »

beart wrote: post #132
supernetworks wrote: post #129

[flagged]

Hey, sorry I'm a bit lost trying to follow your comment. Who are "We" that you are referring to?

Supernetworks -- ill update. Our initial comment got moderated for too much self promotion so also apologies there and again for anyone who is offended

Re: FCC updates covered list to include foreign-made consumer routers

#136

Post by gnabgib »

beart wrote: post #132
supernetworks wrote: post #129

[flagged]

Hey, sorry I'm a bit lost trying to follow your comment. Who are "We" that you are referring to?

I think the we is a bot.. they already posted this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47497129

And suggested a mod should read comment history: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47497296

Re: FCC updates covered list to include foreign-made consumer routers

#137

Post by dlcarrier »

rayiner wrote: post #92
WarOnPrivacy wrote: post #7

The FCC maintains a list of equipment and services (Covered List) that have been determined to “pose an unacceptable risk to the national security Recently, malicious state and non-state sponsored cyber attackers have increasingly leveraged the vulnerabilities in small and home office routers produced abroad to carry out direct attacks against American civilians in their homes. Vulnerabilities have nothing to do with…

> This includes the FCC which license their devices The FCC licenses devices to the extent that devices can cause spurious transmissions in the radio spectrum. It’s not a general consumer protection agency. Computer security also is outside the mandate of the FTC, which exists to protect consumers from anticompetitive conduct and unfair business practices, not crappy products.

I could see why someone might be confused in the Mayer of what the FCC can regulate, considering that it regulates the content of television and radio broadcasts and somehow regulates cable TV providers, despite the use of wired connections to customers, instead of radio transmissions.

Re: FCC updates covered list to include foreign-made consumer routers

#138

Post by supernetworks »

gnabgib wrote: post #136
beart wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey, sorry I'm a bit lost trying to follow your comment. Who are "We" that you are referring to?

I think the we is a bot.. they already posted this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47497129 And suggested a mod should read comment history: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47497296

Not a bot. Anyway if you have questions about router security rather than moderation happy to "delve" into that.

Re: FCC updates covered list to include foreign-made consumer routers

#139

Post by gnabgib »

supernetworks wrote: post #138
gnabgib wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the we is a bot.. they already posted this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47497129 And suggested a mod should read comment history: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47497296

Not a bot. Anyway if you have questions about router security rather than moderation happy to "delve" into that.

Yes, please share more of what you've found about wifi security.

Re: FCC updates covered list to include foreign-made consumer routers

#140

Post by ssl-3 »

dlcarrier wrote: post #134

For the device manufacturers, the obvious solution is to sell them as general-purpose computers. You can already get devices that had started out as Raspberry Pi clones but evolved into excellent DIY network appliances, with multiple high-speed Ethernet and SSD ports that are great for running a NAS, proxy server, firewall, or all three, and more. Rarely do they have good WiFi, but if manufacturers start selling hard…

Companies want to sell what consumers want to buy. But the average consumer doesn't want a general-purpose computer for this job; they instead want to buy a "router".

If companies market the devices as something other than "routers" then consumers will not buy them for routing duty.

(Meanwhile, the non-average people who want to use general-purpose computers as homespun router/NAS/do-all boxes are already aware of how this all works...and many of us have been doing it this way for decades. (Often, this happens alongside dedicated access points that do have good wifi radios.))

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