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GrapheneOS refuses to comply with new age verification laws for operating system

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Re: GrapheneOS refuses to comply with new age verification laws for operating system

#131
post #25

In the meantime systemd already added handling for Age to the system bus. Next step is to add your race, then income, then who you voted for...

> Next step is to add your race, then income, then who you voted for https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope

From your link:

> non-fallacious forms of the argument can also exist.[7]: 273–311

Re: GrapheneOS refuses to comply with new age verification laws for operating system

#132
post #54

Age verification at the OS level makes no sense to me. Most households aren't going to have a separate device for every family member and so you will end up with a tablet or computer set up by one of the parents (and thus having their age stored) that will be used by both parents and children. Likewise, people generally won't create a separate account for every potential user.

What are you talking about, most households give personal phones to their children, especially teenagers. Laptops aren't rare either.

Once you get outside the SV and NYC bubbles, the vast majority of kids do not have their own laptops in the US. Phones, obviously are somewhat more common, but as even you note that's mainly with regard to teenagers - the average 10 year old in middle America does not have their own phone.

Re: GrapheneOS refuses to comply with new age verification laws for operating system

#133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still view it as a step in the wrong direction. And it sends a message that this kind of law is ok.

That depends on what kind of law you view this as. As a parental control like the V-chip (but hopefully with a higher percent of parents using it) it's nothing new.

It's not new but that was a dumb and irrelevant technology too. And didn't last for that reason (easily bypassed, not working with modern tech). Just like the clipper chip that was supposed to spy on us.

Re: GrapheneOS refuses to comply with new age verification laws for operating system

#134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're not really going to be watching porn at the library though, just saying

In fact, many libraries have computers sectioned off in semi-private areas exactly for this reason...

Are you sure that's a library?

I mean we have places here like that where you can insert some coins for a private viewing cabin but we don't call them libraries :)

Re: GrapheneOS refuses to comply with new age verification laws for operating system

#135

We expected no less from GOS project. systemd which was already in hot water over because the problems it creates over service, this was the last drop to get folks dropping systemct altogether.

i wish, but its not easy. So much of the application ecosystem has now been adapted or built around systemd and its other services. While some tools might still work with dbus alternatives, its quite clear that its harder and harder to use linux without it. Gnome is one example where even the dbus replacements wont work anymore. Others will follow; ironically Ubuntu is doing its own thing like usual, using systemd and resolved but not some other parts. However, im not really holding my breath there, as they usually end up adopting the "standard" way; now in the hands of companies like IBM....

I think the only option really at this point is to move over to BSD, but we face other issues like GPU drivers etc. The same people that worry about systemd probably also worry about AI, so if they want to be able to use it, it needs to run locally.

The 3rd option is to move away from general computing, and start building esp32 powered tools, where we can own the fulls stack. Dedicated digital tools for specific purposes. Personally, this sound like the best option, taking into account that we have almost lost the battle for open OS on mobile devices. We need to get away from the giant US corporations for the majority of our computing, and only interact with them when absolutely necessary. A grass roots computing moment basically.

Re: GrapheneOS refuses to comply with new age verification laws for operating system

#137

Age verification at the OS level makes no sense to me. Most households aren't going to have a separate device for every family member and so you will end up with a tablet or computer set up by one of the parents (and thus having their age stored) that will be used by both parents and children. Likewise, people generally won't create a separate account for every potential user.

> Age verification at the OS level makes no sense to me. it's the only form of "age verification" which can be done in a somewhat privacy respecting way (as in at most leak the age) the idea is to "bounce back" the "is old enough" decision to parent controls and let the parent choose (the Californian law doesn't quite do that perfectly, but goes into that direction) and if you sell what is more or less a general purp…

Ideally, they'd require OS (desktop and mobile) to have an adult mode and a restricted mode (set up by the adults when they buy the device), and then let third-party apps confirm the status (e.g., age) in the latter case. Then you have minimal privacy issues and many parents actually want something like this.

Re: GrapheneOS refuses to comply with new age verification laws for operating system

#138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or just not have it at all? What is wrong with parental controls AND parenting? What real issue does this solve?

It solves the problem of your kid borrowing a phone from another kid at school.

Does it though? Unless all countries unify their laws regarding this matter it will fail in the same way that blacklist filtering does.

Also I'm not convinced that borrowing a device presents a new or different failure mode. Children could always obtain physical contraband from their friends so nothing has changed here.

Re: GrapheneOS refuses to comply with new age verification laws for operating system

#139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Next step is to add your race, then income, then who you voted for https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope

From your link: > non-fallacious forms of the argument can also exist.[7]: 273–311

Also most human communication isn't about formal logical reasoning. It's only a fallacy when applied in the form "A therefore B". We can make all sorts of useful and relevant observations about human and societal behavior that aren't logically rigorous.

Re: GrapheneOS refuses to comply with new age verification laws for operating system

#140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> An adult had to pay for the ISP connection Ever heard of free wifi?

I have! And an adult still has to pay the connection charges to offer that free wi-fi. Or provide the funds for a kid to buy a device to connect to said free wi-fi. You can go down the rabbit hole as far as you like, but it's to no avail. At some point , an adult has to consciously enable the child to connect to the internet. Full stop.

I agree with the sentiment you're expressing however I think "consciously enable" might be taking it a step too far. Modern devices off no end of unexpected was to gain internet access.
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