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Atlassian says it had right to fire engineer for suggesting CEO is 'rich jerk'

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Re: Atlassian says it had right to fire engineer for suggesting CEO is 'rich jerk'

#131
post #73

It feels like a stretch to claim that mocking your CEO (deservedly or not) counts as collectively discussing or protesting working conditions.

Does the law protecting discussion of working conditions (in this case the handling of layoffs) really vanish if those discussions are humorous?

Is there a meaningful discussion of working conditions here? The article doesn’t have a lot of other context. If this is all that the employee in question said, I would not call it discussion of working conditions.

Re: Atlassian says it had right to fire engineer for suggesting CEO is 'rich jerk'

#132
post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does the law protecting discussion of working conditions (in this case the handling of layoffs) really vanish if those discussions are humorous?

Is there a meaningful discussion of working conditions here? The article doesn’t have a lot of other context. If this is all that the employee in question said, I would not call it discussion of working conditions.

Yes, the "joke" only works because the implication is that the CEO is out of touch with the lives and working conditions of the average employee. It's pretty overt in meaning.

Should employees be required to discuss things explicitly? Without the natural way people talk? Especially the natural way Americans talk? Seems pretty rigid if you ask me

Re: Atlassian says it had right to fire engineer for suggesting CEO is 'rich jerk'

#133
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, why surround yourself with people who are critical of you, when you can surround yourself with yes-men who will loyally toe the line? Positive contributions comes from loyal subjects who agree with their betters.

That's one way to look at it. Another way is that people who are aligned with the CEOs mission will help achieve the mission, and people who are not aligned will not help achieve the mission. And it's the CEOs job to define the mission

Being aligned with the goals of an organization is different from being aligned with the organization. Do not conflate the two.

See Pournelle's Iron Law of Bureaucracy.

https://jerrypournelle.com/reports/jerryp/iron.html

Re: Atlassian says it had right to fire engineer for suggesting CEO is 'rich jerk'

#135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's one way to look at it. Another way is that people who are aligned with the CEOs mission will help achieve the mission, and people who are not aligned will not help achieve the mission. And it's the CEOs job to define the mission

The mission is usually stupid and also dumb, and it would be in the CEOs best interest to surround himself or herself with people willing to tell them that. Meta could've saved billions of dollars if more people told Zuck that the Metaverse is stupid, because it was. The end result is the same. The death of the idea. That much is actually unavoidable, because stupid and bad ideas will always fail, with or without sup…

  > I think there is a brain decay that occurs as people become more rich and powerful.
My prevailing hypothesis is that as you advance in leadership roles there's a natural tendency to have the ego grow. After all, you have evidence for your ego: you make important decisions and you've risen up in whatever social structure. And I think there's a natural bias to surround yourself with yesmen. They create less friction, so naturally we want that. And it's hard to distinguish yesmen from people who genuinely believe in the same things as you. But the yesmen are able to hide this way, even by being "disagreeable" in just the right way (which makes it hard to distinguish). With the more proficient yesmen themselves rising to the top too.

So I think it's important for leaders to surround themselves with a distribution of opinions. I think in order to make good decisions we need friction. We need frustration. We need people to tell us we're wrong when we're wrong. We also need people to tell us we're wrong even when we're right, because the challenge of the idea forces us to think deeper. But I think the real challenge is implementing this correctly. It needs most "advisors" to be acting honestly, independently, and in good faith. It's hard to cultivate that and I think to do so you need to let people trash talk you, even egregiously. Because a misinterpretation of punishing someone can be seen interpreted as retaliation (even if completely fair), and upsetting the whole balance. Context can easily be lost

I suspect it's an unstable equilibrium, making it really difficult to maintain.

Re: Atlassian says it had right to fire engineer for suggesting CEO is 'rich jerk'

#138
And this is why knowledge workers, professionals, and every kind of worker needs to unionize and potentially find a path to working for themselves or forming worker-owned co-ops to create more stable, long term stable, less toxic, and fairer profit sharing environments because corporate extraction machines treat owners like kings and employees like dirt. It doesn't have to be this way.

Re: Atlassian says it had right to fire engineer for suggesting CEO is 'rich jerk'

#139

And this is why knowledge workers, professionals, and every kind of worker needs to unionize and potentially find a path to working for themselves or forming worker-owned co-ops to create more stable, long term stable, less toxic, and fairer profit sharing environments because corporate extraction machines treat owners like kings and employees like dirt. It doesn't have to be this way.

[dead]

Re: Atlassian says it had right to fire engineer for suggesting CEO is 'rich jerk'

#140
post #57
post #34

Is it really surprising she was fired? It's completely okay to say whatever you want and stand up for yourself, but you are not a child, own the consequences rather than whine

Surprised? I don’t think anyone is surprised but I, personally, am grossed out by it, it lowers my opinion of Atlassian and makes me less likely to select their products in the future.

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