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The return-to-the-office trend backfires

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Re: The return-to-the-office trend backfires

#131

Post by fc417fc802 »

palmotea wrote: post #125
diacritical wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So? I wouldn't say it to their face. Who cares if I (a random person online) say something bad about no one in particular to a bunch of random people on the internet? Can you honestly say you don't know people you'd describe, to yourself, at least, as corporate drones? Or maybe as boring, as squares, as idiots, as retards and so on? I bet you do. I bet everyone does, and everyone, including me, is the idiot in someon…

> So? I wouldn't say it to their face. Who cares if I (a random person online) say something bad about no one in particular to a bunch of random people on the internet? You're just revealing your true colors, that's all. > Can you honestly say you don't know people you'd describe, to yourself, at least, as corporate drones? Or maybe as boring, as squares, as idiots, as retards and so on? I bet you do. I bet everyone…

Labeling does not necessarily imply contempt. I'm sure everyone (including you) applies labels all the time without feeling any.

Not everyone is going to enjoy socializing with their coworkers. There's nothing wrong with that.

Re: The return-to-the-office trend backfires

#132

Post by matchbok3 »

000ooo000 wrote: post #101
matchbok3 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think these conspiracy theories about RTO are really unhelpful and actually harmful to the viability of hybrid work arrangements. Please work in a day as a oil rig technician or a nurse. "I should be able to work anywhere and my employer must accommodate me" is an extremely privileged and elitist view of thinking. A few of your notes are actually just wrong as well. Salaries jumped during covid due to over-hiring a…

>Please work in a day as a oil rig technician or a nurse. "I should be able to work anywhere and my employer must accommodate me" is an extremely privileged and elitist view of thinking. To highlight just how stupid this is, here it is from another angle: "I have to work on site so everyone else must work on site" What is the logical conclusion here? That the workforce should be equal in every sense? Come on

This point is directly aimed at those who view the RTO efforts as a class issue (owners vs workers). There is an entitled POV in many WFH debates.

Re: The return-to-the-office trend backfires

#133

Post by matchbok3 »

NeutralCrane wrote: post #89
matchbok3 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think these conspiracy theories about RTO are really unhelpful and actually harmful to the viability of hybrid work arrangements. Please work in a day as a oil rig technician or a nurse. "I should be able to work anywhere and my employer must accommodate me" is an extremely privileged and elitist view of thinking. A few of your notes are actually just wrong as well. Salaries jumped during covid due to over-hiring a…

“Someone has it worse than you” is always a stupid argument.

Solid contribution champ.

Re: The return-to-the-office trend backfires

#134

Post by matchbok3 »

asdff wrote: post #59
matchbok3 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure I understand the point. The vast, vast majority of jobs simply cannot be done remotely. So I have little patience for the entitlement of people thinking they "deserve" it or yell about conspiracy theories about why it is going away. There is a reason YC is in person. There is a reason why the top companies are in person.

What say you to the fact that there are companies that work remote today and are competitive and doing fine? Anomalous? Or maybe your prior assumptions need adjustment?

Yes, they are outliers. Or they are coasting.

Again (and again). There is a reason why YC and the top, most innovative companies are in person.

Re: The return-to-the-office trend backfires

#135

Post by matchbok3 »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #96
matchbok3 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure I understand the point. The vast, vast majority of jobs simply cannot be done remotely. So I have little patience for the entitlement of people thinking they "deserve" it or yell about conspiracy theories about why it is going away. There is a reason YC is in person. There is a reason why the top companies are in person.

You say entitlement, but the reality is you have sour grapes about people who can have a flexible work arrangement. Some people pick jobs that are not able to be flexible, that’s a choice. Pick better. People work to live, not live to work, they should not tolerate how they should have to work because some manager or c-level is lucky to be in their position of power. The UK provides by law the ability to seek and obt…

I work from home, champ. No sour grapes here. Try again, and please engage in the argument, don't throw personal attacks.

The UK? The UK has 0 innovative companies. No silicon valley. Nothing. If you want American to be like them, no thanks.

Re: The return-to-the-office trend backfires

#136

Post by matchbok3 »

imcrs wrote: post #74
matchbok3 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think these conspiracy theories about RTO are really unhelpful and actually harmful to the viability of hybrid work arrangements. Please work in a day as a oil rig technician or a nurse. "I should be able to work anywhere and my employer must accommodate me" is an extremely privileged and elitist view of thinking. A few of your notes are actually just wrong as well. Salaries jumped during covid due to over-hiring a…

What's actually really unhelpful and actually harmful to the viability of hybrid work arrangements is RTO. > "I should be able to work anywhere and my employer must accommodate me" is an extremely privileged and elitist view of thinking. Nope! You totally missed the point. "You must accomodate me" is a demand, that you can place on your employer, when you have labor power, as an employee. The acceding is what we're t…

You do, in fact, have the agency to get another job.

So no, you are not "forced" to RTO at all.

Re: The return-to-the-office trend backfires

#137

Post by [deleted] »

matchbok3 wrote: post #135
toomuchtodo wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You say entitlement, but the reality is you have sour grapes about people who can have a flexible work arrangement. Some people pick jobs that are not able to be flexible, that’s a choice. Pick better. People work to live, not live to work, they should not tolerate how they should have to work because some manager or c-level is lucky to be in their position of power. The UK provides by law the ability to seek and obt…

I work from home, champ. No sour grapes here. Try again, and please engage in the argument, don't throw personal attacks. The UK? The UK has 0 innovative companies. No silicon valley. Nothing. If you want American to be like them, no thanks.

[deleted]

Re: The return-to-the-office trend backfires

#138

Post by palmotea »

fc417fc802 wrote: post #131
palmotea wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So? I wouldn't say it to their face. Who cares if I (a random person online) say something bad about no one in particular to a bunch of random people on the internet? You're just revealing your true colors, that's all. > Can you honestly say you don't know people you'd describe, to yourself, at least, as corporate drones? Or maybe as boring, as squares, as idiots, as retards and so on? I bet you do. I bet everyone…

Labeling does not necessarily imply contempt. I'm sure everyone (including you) applies labels all the time without feeling any. Not everyone is going to enjoy socializing with their coworkers. There's nothing wrong with that.

> Labeling does not necessarily imply contempt.

But certain labels do. Labels like "drone," for instance.

> Not everyone is going to enjoy socializing with their coworkers. There's nothing wrong with that.

There isn't, but that's not what we're talking about.

Re: The return-to-the-office trend backfires

#139

Post by fc417fc802 »

palmotea wrote: post #138
fc417fc802 wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Labeling does not necessarily imply contempt. I'm sure everyone (including you) applies labels all the time without feeling any. Not everyone is going to enjoy socializing with their coworkers. There's nothing wrong with that.

> Labeling does not necessarily imply contempt. But certain labels do. Labels like "drone," for instance. > Not everyone is going to enjoy socializing with their coworkers. There's nothing wrong with that. There isn't, but that's not what we're talking about.

That's subjective. I don't agree about "drone" for example. I see it as a largely neutral descriptor that can skew slightly positive or negative based on context. Particularly "corporate drone" to me refers to an office worker with a long term stable job at a megacorporation. Such a category can easily carry either a positive or negative connotation depending on the speaker.

> There isn't, but that's not what we're talking about.

Says you. Your original response was ambiguous so I included that.

Re: The return-to-the-office trend backfires

#140

Post by munksbeer »

heraldgeezer wrote: post #52
imcrs wrote: post #13

RTO is about controlling labor, nothing else. Everything else is a smoke screen. Ask yourself the following questions and you'll understand what happened: - why did RTO happen seemingly right after salaries jumped and labor became scarce? - why did RTO happen virtually in lockstep across all of white collar employment? - why did RTO happen despite no evidence that productivity had anything to do with it? (and in fact…

What if I actually like the office? It is a nice building in a nice area. I have a 40min walk to it or 10min bus ride. I like my colleagues. Sometimes you need to meet and solve problems face to face, and not have it be planned. I like dressing up a bit, not a full suit but nice pleated pants and OCBD/sweater/blazer. I have a shift schedule, sometimes I am the only one in the office, that is bliss :) But my work is 1…

> What if I actually like the office?

You should definitely go in to the office!

But why make everyone return? We're all workers, shouldn't we stick up for each other? A huge number of people, including me, way prefer to work remotely most of the week, for all the reasons you're already aware of.

It seems to me that we should all be looking to make workers lives better, rather than worse. I whole heartedly support your choice to work in the office or remotely.

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