Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The Wyden Siren Goes Off Again: We’ll Be “Stunned” By What the NSA Is Doing

techdirt.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

131–140 of 179 posts

Re: The Wyden Siren Goes Off Again: We’ll Be “Stunned” By What the NSA Is Doing

#131

Post by roenxi »

wing-_-nuts wrote: post #13

Everyone who's not terribly worried about privacy always uses the line 'if you're not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about', but my line of thinking is not 'do i trust the government' it's 'do I have faith in all future forms of government who will have access to this data' Given how fast and lose I've seen the DODGE folks play with the data they have, absolutely not . I still shudder over the fact t…

And if we're talking about 'if you're not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about' - the other irony is they probably are doing something wrong. There are a lot of rules out there. The only reason it isn't being bought up in the conversation is because the person has a certain level of privacy.

One of the interesting things the Epstein drama has kicked up is legal or not, the powerful get up to some wild things at parties. And in their business dealings just based on the background number of scandals. If there is an organised group of people allowed to look there is just endless blackmail material which is going to get used, just like LOVEINT.

Re: The Wyden Siren Goes Off Again: We’ll Be “Stunned” By What the NSA Is Doing

#132

Post by FpUser »

briffle wrote: post #21
wing-_-nuts wrote: post #13

Everyone who's not terribly worried about privacy always uses the line 'if you're not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about', but my line of thinking is not 'do i trust the government' it's 'do I have faith in all future forms of government who will have access to this data' Given how fast and lose I've seen the DODGE folks play with the data they have, absolutely not . I still shudder over the fact t…

I have seen what happens with garbage-in/garbage-out in databases, so this kind of stuff terrifies me. I often think of a case where we had a person listed twice in our database, with same address, birthday, etc, only thing different was gender, and last 2 digits of SSN were transposed.. After we 'fixed' the issue a few times, they BOTH showed up to our office. Both Named Leslie, born on same day, a few small towns a…

Some time in the 90s I used to live at XXX Some Street West apt #1234 and my close friend at XXX Some Street East apt #1234. One day someone knocks on the door. I open and there is a pizza man. We argued for a while and he kept insisting that I did order it. Finally I asked him to show the order. Of course it was all the same but East instead of West. Anyways I called my friend and thanked for a pizza. This was so funny.

Re: The Wyden Siren Goes Off Again: We’ll Be “Stunned” By What the NSA Is Doing

#133

Post by thaumasiotes »

LorenPechtel wrote: post #79
briffle wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have seen what happens with garbage-in/garbage-out in databases, so this kind of stuff terrifies me. I often think of a case where we had a person listed twice in our database, with same address, birthday, etc, only thing different was gender, and last 2 digits of SSN were transposed.. After we 'fixed' the issue a few times, they BOTH showed up to our office. Both Named Leslie, born on same day, a few small towns a…

Being married to someone with the same name could be very confusing!

How?

Re: The Wyden Siren Goes Off Again: We’ll Be “Stunned” By What the NSA Is Doing

#134

Post by thaumasiotes »

nwallin wrote: post #108
Zigurd wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you ever sat on a jury in a criminal case? A frighteningly high percentage of people will swallow every lie a cop tells, even when thoroughly discredited in cross-examination. There's no shortage of people to guard the concentration camps.

I was on a jury a few years ago. The defendent was a homeless person with mental health issues. The cop was obviously lying about the one thing that was the core element of the crime. It was like a child telling the truth about every element of the indoor soccer game expect the part where they were the one who kicked the ball. The jury was me, (white) nine other white people, and two brown people. Me and the brown pe…

> I looked him up when I got home. (I didn't look him up during the trial, they expressly forbid you from doing that)

Why is complying with that rule more sensible than believing the cop because he's a cop?

Re: The Wyden Siren Goes Off Again: We’ll Be “Stunned” By What the NSA Is Doing

#135

Post by gwinkle »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #82
wing-_-nuts wrote: post #13

Everyone who's not terribly worried about privacy always uses the line 'if you're not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about', but my line of thinking is not 'do i trust the government' it's 'do I have faith in all future forms of government who will have access to this data' Given how fast and lose I've seen the DODGE folks play with the data they have, absolutely not . I still shudder over the fact t…

> Everyone who's not terribly worried about privacy always uses the line 'if you're not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about', "Saying you don't need privacy because you have nothing to hide is like saying you don't need freedom of speech because you have nothing to say." - Edward Snowden

Snowden is comparing two things that, in fact, are not alike. Surveillance gathers information, whereas censorship suppresses expression. It might sound like clever rhetoric to people of a lower intellectual capacity, but these are fundamentally distinct concepts.

Re: The Wyden Siren Goes Off Again: We’ll Be “Stunned” By What the NSA Is Doing

#136

Post by saagarjha »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #134
nwallin wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was on a jury a few years ago. The defendent was a homeless person with mental health issues. The cop was obviously lying about the one thing that was the core element of the crime. It was like a child telling the truth about every element of the indoor soccer game expect the part where they were the one who kicked the ball. The jury was me, (white) nine other white people, and two brown people. Me and the brown pe…

> I looked him up when I got home. (I didn't look him up during the trial, they expressly forbid you from doing that) Why is complying with that rule more sensible than believing the cop because he's a cop?

Because it is a well documented source of bias.

Re: The Wyden Siren Goes Off Again: We’ll Be “Stunned” By What the NSA Is Doing

#137

Post by Revanche1367 »

gwinkle wrote: post #135
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Everyone who's not terribly worried about privacy always uses the line 'if you're not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about', "Saying you don't need privacy because you have nothing to hide is like saying you don't need freedom of speech because you have nothing to say." - Edward Snowden

Snowden is comparing two things that, in fact, are not alike. Surveillance gathers information, whereas censorship suppresses expression. It might sound like clever rhetoric to people of a lower intellectual capacity, but these are fundamentally distinct concepts.

Or he was not comparing those two things to say they are the same thing but rather making an analogy based on the common factor of people in the US often wanting legal protections for both speech and privacy to draw his point that one is giving up their rights by making the excuse about not wanting privacy which they would probably not do when it comes to speech.

Thinking comparisons of two similar things are always for the purpose of saying that they are the same thing is ridiculous, don’t you think? It might sound like clever reasoning to people of a mediocre intellectual capacity but it is not logically coherent.

Re: The Wyden Siren Goes Off Again: We’ll Be “Stunned” By What the NSA Is Doing

#138

Post by AnthonyMouse »

gwinkle wrote: post #135
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Everyone who's not terribly worried about privacy always uses the line 'if you're not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about', "Saying you don't need privacy because you have nothing to hide is like saying you don't need freedom of speech because you have nothing to say." - Edward Snowden

Snowden is comparing two things that, in fact, are not alike. Surveillance gathers information, whereas censorship suppresses expression. It might sound like clever rhetoric to people of a lower intellectual capacity, but these are fundamentally distinct concepts.

> Surveillance gathers information, whereas censorship suppresses expression.

Surveillance suppresses expression through chilling effects.

Re: The Wyden Siren Goes Off Again: We’ll Be “Stunned” By What the NSA Is Doing

#139

Post by goatlover »

gwinkle wrote: post #135
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Everyone who's not terribly worried about privacy always uses the line 'if you're not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about', "Saying you don't need privacy because you have nothing to hide is like saying you don't need freedom of speech because you have nothing to say." - Edward Snowden

Snowden is comparing two things that, in fact, are not alike. Surveillance gathers information, whereas censorship suppresses expression. It might sound like clever rhetoric to people of a lower intellectual capacity, but these are fundamentally distinct concepts.

He's comparing two rights and how giving up one right (to privacy) because you think you have nothing to hide is like giving up your right to speech, because you have nothing to say (and therefore don't have to worry that someone in power might find it offensive).

Re: The Wyden Siren Goes Off Again: We’ll Be “Stunned” By What the NSA Is Doing

#140

Post by thaumasiotes »

smcin wrote: post #114
fragmede wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The mistake would be reading Hacker News and walking away with the conclusion that because people don't post that reasoning here that it doesn't exist (and even then, you do find that does come up here on occasion). People with "nothing to hide" do actually believe that, and while they may not post it to HN for vigorous debate. The easy counterexample from history is the list of Jews kept by the Netherlands which was…

To correct the mangling of history, there was no "list of Jews kept by the Netherlands [pre-occupation]". There were only pre-existing Dutch population registries of all people, where the personal details collected by the Dutch had included religion, not for any ill purpose. (The Nazis subsequently compiled a list, post-occupation, but that's not what you asserted.)

So, the Netherlands kept a list of everyone, and they specifically marked out all the Jews, but that doesn't constitute keeping a list of Jews?
Post reply on HN