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Nanny state discovers Linux, demands it check kids' IDs before booting

theregister.com

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Re: Nanny state discovers Linux, demands it check kids' IDs before booting

#131

Post by shadowgovt »

iamnothere wrote: post #93
shadowgovt wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, "it's just a fucking hobby" no longer being an excuse has been a long time coming, much in the same way that driving cars or flying airplanes started as just a hobby but became no longer one when practicing it had outsized consequences to non-practitioners. Signed, someone who notes frequently that the default apache configs probably put a web developer in violation of the GDPR (since if you just left on…

You’re arguing against freedom of computing, itself an extension of freedom of thought and freedom of speech. These laws are an attempt to regulate not just what you do with your computer, but how it operates . This is fundamentally an attack on rights and freedoms, and if it goes unchallenged then it will expand into other areas. Maybe that doesn’t move you; it seems like you don’t care much for personal liberties.…

You have made some fascinating assumptions about the person you are addressing. I recommend refraining from that in the future and instead asking why a fellow American takes a position other than the one you hold.

Two guys built a website to try and help people curb their undesired sexual proclivities and because they were bad at security, their users' personal information (including their own logs of their sexual proclivities) is leaked. They will see no consequences other than "oops, oh well, I guess we're going to shut down our website now and, probably, build another one."

Why is that okay? We've de-facto operated as if it os okay for decades under a notion of "user beware," but that notion is increasingly incompatible with the goals of treating Internet access as a human right because if you let everyone on, you are definitely letting people on who lack the capacity, knowledge, or savvy to beware. And we lack a framework for holding "two guys who just told the world how often you jack off" accountable for their violation of confidentiality.

Individual users become nodes in botnets. Individual users have their identities compromised. Individual users are talked into being kidnapped by anonymous victimizers. Individual users are, increasingly, everyone's concern the moment they connect to a shared network. And, perhaps most significantly to this topic: the Internet does not distinguish between two guys building a hobby app and a professional service.

This specific notion, age-gating access, may not be the right step. But we should be a lot more serious about taking more than zero steps. The time of effing around and pretending there are no consequences to these technologies is over.

Re: Nanny state discovers Linux, demands it check kids' IDs before booting

#132

Post by GuestFAUniverse »

shadowgovt wrote: post #68
iamnothere wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who is paying FOSS devs who will be implementing this? Who is providing them with legal indemnification since they are now apparently subject to fines for a fucking hobby if they do it wrong? Who is making CA the only jurisdiction instead of the myriad contradictory laws all over the place? Who is stepping in to make sure no additional legislation comes across regulating how FOSS has to include backdoors or weaken en…

To be fair, "it's just a fucking hobby" no longer being an excuse has been a long time coming, much in the same way that driving cars or flying airplanes started as just a hobby but became no longer one when practicing it had outsized consequences to non-practitioners. Signed, someone who notes frequently that the default apache configs probably put a web developer in violation of the GDPR (since if you just left on…

Simple: the fail2ban jails need the logs to keep the bots away, that prevent a proper operation. Thus it is technically necessary. And this is explicitly allowed as part of the GDPR.

On the other hand, nobody can help a clueless web dev.

Re: Nanny state discovers Linux, demands it check kids' IDs before booting

#133

Post by bee_rider »

iamnothere wrote: post #93
shadowgovt wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, "it's just a fucking hobby" no longer being an excuse has been a long time coming, much in the same way that driving cars or flying airplanes started as just a hobby but became no longer one when practicing it had outsized consequences to non-practitioners. Signed, someone who notes frequently that the default apache configs probably put a web developer in violation of the GDPR (since if you just left on…

You’re arguing against freedom of computing, itself an extension of freedom of thought and freedom of speech. These laws are an attempt to regulate not just what you do with your computer, but how it operates . This is fundamentally an attack on rights and freedoms, and if it goes unchallenged then it will expand into other areas. Maybe that doesn’t move you; it seems like you don’t care much for personal liberties.…

This site is hosted in America, but in general I think they get the Internet in other countries now.

Re: Nanny state discovers Linux, demands it check kids' IDs before booting

#134

Post by everdrive »

wat10000 wrote: post #61
rmast wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The sobriety check requirement for cars is so optimistic: “Once data prove the tech cuts drunk-driving crashes, insurers may trim rates.” Why would any insurance company want to cut into their profits by reducing rates?

Because it's a competitive market and offering a lower price than your competitors helps you earn more business. If your competitors lower their prices and you don't lower yours then you'll lose business.

This is a wildly optimistic view for insurance companies in particular. You basically need to jump providers every few years, or else you're overpaying.

Re: Nanny state discovers Linux, demands it check kids' IDs before booting

#135

Post by [deleted] »

whywhywhywhy wrote: post #27
wongarsu wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The California law only stipulates that there's an "accessible interface at account setup" to set the birthday or age at account setup, and an interface to query the age bracket. Plus the crap for "application stores" I don't think it's a very well thought-out law. But realistically this will end up as setting some env variable for your docker containers to assure them that you are 99 years old. And yes, maybe transm…

So once my application is running I can just keep querying an age bracket until it flips and then I've successfully determined a date of birth.

[deleted]

Re: Nanny state discovers Linux, demands it check kids' IDs before booting

#136

Post by LtWorf »

gzread wrote: post #110
bee_rider wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a neat attack (in that it is obvious and a big flaw but also it makes sense that the lawmakers wouldn’t have thought of it), but it would only affect users who have an age-bucket transition while your application is running, right? Edit: as folks have pointed out, the attacking application doesn’t actually have to be running while the age-transition takes place. The attacker just has to have logs from before…

The UI can be implemented using the user's date of birth, but it can also be implemented by selecting an age bracket and then all it tells you is that the user changed the age bracket setting.

Age brackets cannot update themselves.

Re: Nanny state discovers Linux, demands it check kids' IDs before booting

#137

Post by quesera »

mothballed wrote: post #120
quesera wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because 10% of US citizens (legitimate voters) do not have the forms of ID required in these proposed laws, and it can be expensive and time-consuming to get those forms of ID which are not otherwise required for their lives (QED), and they might not do so strictly for voting. Some people think disenfranchisement is bad. Others see it as useful. Specifically, PartyB thinks those people with inadequate ID skew toward…

This is revealed as a fraudulent premise in many states, though. For instance, Illinois doesn't require ID to vote, yet requires an FOID to bear a firearm. How is it that you don't need an ID to exercise the rights of voting 'citizens', but you need one to exercise the right of 'people'? Consider that virtually all 'citizens' are also 'people', and even if you argue they are not, the portion of voting citizens that a…

Fewer people want guns than want to vote.

Consequences of errors with guns are higher than with voting, because elections are audited and mistakes and fraud are found and reversed.

You cannot helpfully audit misuse of guns, after the fact.

Re: Nanny state discovers Linux, demands it check kids' IDs before booting

#138

Post by iamnothere »

shadowgovt wrote: post #131
iamnothere wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re arguing against freedom of computing, itself an extension of freedom of thought and freedom of speech. These laws are an attempt to regulate not just what you do with your computer, but how it operates . This is fundamentally an attack on rights and freedoms, and if it goes unchallenged then it will expand into other areas. Maybe that doesn’t move you; it seems like you don’t care much for personal liberties.…

You have made some fascinating assumptions about the person you are addressing. I recommend refraining from that in the future and instead asking why a fellow American takes a position other than the one you hold. Two guys built a website to try and help people curb their undesired sexual proclivities and because they were bad at security, their users' personal information (including their own logs of their sexual pr…

If you’re an American and you want to change this, feel free to propose and pass an amendment. That’s the allowable process for changing what the government can and can’t do regarding individual rights.

Edit: removed part of my comment because misunderstood your rambling point about that website, and I guess I have no idea how it relates to OS regulation. Websites are not operating systems. Your ability to tell me how I run my systems stops at my door, especially if I’m not hosting commercial services. Again, that’s just a question of fundamental rights.

Re: Nanny state discovers Linux, demands it check kids' IDs before booting

#139

Post by [deleted] »

gzread wrote: post #129
quesera wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't know those existed, and so I kind of see your point. The counterpoint is that if your job was to prevent/punish financial crimes that affect consumers, would it make sense to ignore these exchanges? Heck, if M:TG cards were the medium, and they could be moved across international borders with a few keystrokes, then surely those would be watched too. I won't argue that it's not privacy-invading for legitimate…

If my job was to promote open source software it would make sense to ban proprietary software. That doesn't mean I should actually be allowed to do that.

[deleted]

Re: Nanny state discovers Linux, demands it check kids' IDs before booting

#140

Post by cindyllm »

mothballed wrote: post #88
EGreg wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The trenches will eventually be overwhelmed regardless. Once the government has AI and sensors, it will mandate its ubiquitous use. For minors, we have this lovely law coming in NYC: that will broadcast to everyone that you’re a minor: https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/bills/2025/S8102 But let’s talk about around the US. For example, all cars manufactured in 2029 and onward will be required to have a built-in alco…

What's hilarious is that in supposed dystopic corrupt hellholes I've lived or spent time in (Syria during the civil war, Iraq, Philippines, etc) all of this is unimaginable. Westerners view freedom as having a piece of paper that says they are free plus not having to bother fighting off ISIS or the gangsters because the even bigger gangster in a clean uniform and nice jackboot will take care of it. Much of the rest o…

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