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Cloudflare crawl endpoint

developers.cloudflare.com

131–140 of 194 posts

Re: Cloudflare crawl endpoint

#131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What % of sites have a content update volume that exceeds what you can get respecting crawl delay? If your delay is 1s and you publish less than 60 updates a minute on average I can still get 100%. Most crawls are not that latency sensitive, certainly not the ai ones. HFT bots, now that is an entirely different ballgame.

> Most crawls are not that latency sensitive, certainly not the ai ones. They certainly behave like they are. We constantly see crawlers trying to do cache busting, for pages that hasn't change in days, if not weeks. It's hard to tell where the bots are coming from theses days, as most have taken to just lie and say that they are Chrome. I'd agree that the respecting robots.txt makes this a non-starter for the proble…

> We constantly see crawlers trying to do cache busting

Do you have a source for this? Not saying you're wrong, I'd just like to know more

Re: Cloudflare crawl endpoint

#132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ask yourself, why would a scraper ddos? Why would a ddos-protection vendor ddos?

Because the scraper is either impatient, careless or indifferent; and if they scrape for training data they don't plan to come back. If they don't plan to come back they don't care if you tighten up crawling protections after they have moved on. In fact they are probably happy that they got their data and their competition won't

> they don't plan to come back

To me the current behavior of those scrapers tells me that "they don't plan", period.

Looks like they hired a bunch of excavators and are digging 2 meters deep on whole fields, looking for nuggets of gold, and pilling the dirt on a huge mountain.

Once they realize the field was bereft of any gold but full of silver? Or that the gold was actually 2.5 meters deep?

They have to go through everything again.

Re: Cloudflare crawl endpoint

#133

I'm surprised that Cloudflare hasn't started hosting a pre-scraped version of websites that use Cloudflare's proxy - something like https://www.example.com/cdn-cgi/cached-contents.json They already have the website content in their cache, so why not just cut out the middle man of scraping services and API's like this and publish it? Obviously there's good reasons NOT to, but I am surprised they haven't started offeri…

That was my first thought when I read the headline. It would make perfect sense, and would allow some websites to have best of both worlds: broadcasting content without being crushed by bots. (Not all sites want to broadcast, but many do).

Re: Cloudflare crawl endpoint

#135
post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the simple explanation is that they weren't selling scraping countermeasures, they were selling web-based denial of service protection (which may be caused by scrapers).

Ask yourself, why would a scraper ddos? Why would a ddos-protection vendor ddos?

Ask yourself, why would everyone except you say that they do?

Re: Cloudflare crawl endpoint

#136
post #39

I'm surprised that Cloudflare hasn't started hosting a pre-scraped version of websites that use Cloudflare's proxy - something like https://www.example.com/cdn-cgi/cached-contents.json They already have the website content in their cache, so why not just cut out the middle man of scraping services and API's like this and publish it? Obviously there's good reasons NOT to, but I am surprised they haven't started offeri…

Not the same thing, but they have something close (it's not on-by-default, yet) [1]: > Cloudflare's network now supports real-time content conversion at the source, for enabled zones using content negotiation headers. Now when AI systems request pages from any website that uses Cloudflare and has Markdown for Agents enabled, they can express the preference for text/markdown in the request. Our network will automatica…

Interesting - its sounds like this could be combined with some creative cache parsing on their side to provide this feature to sites that want it.

Re: Cloudflare crawl endpoint

#138

I'm surprised that Cloudflare hasn't started hosting a pre-scraped version of websites that use Cloudflare's proxy - something like https://www.example.com/cdn-cgi/cached-contents.json They already have the website content in their cache, so why not just cut out the middle man of scraping services and API's like this and publish it? Obviously there's good reasons NOT to, but I am surprised they haven't started offeri…

Well, the conversion process into the JSON representation is going to take CPU, and then you have to store the result, in essence doubling your cache footprint. Doing it on demand still utilizes their cached version, so it saves a trip to the origin, but doesn’t require doubling the cache size. They can still cache the results if the same site is scraped multiple times, but this saves having to cache things that are…

> Doing it on demand still utilizes their cached version, so it saves a trip to the origin, but doesn’t require doubling the cache size. They can still cache the results if the same site is scraped multiple times, but this saves having to cache things that are never going to be requested.

Isn't this solving a slightly, but very significantly different problem?

You could serve the very same data in two different ways: One to present to the users and one to hand over to scrapers. Of course, some sites would be too difficult or costly to transform into a common underlying cache format, but people who WANT their sides accessible to scrapers could easily help the process along a bit or serve their site in the necessary format in the first place.

But the key is:

A tool using a "pre-scraped" version of a site has very likely very different requirements of how a CDN caches this site. And this could be easily customizable by those using this endpoint.

Want a free version? Ok, give us the list of all the sites you want, then come back in 10min and grab everything in one go, the data will be kept ready for 60s. Got an API token? 10 free near-real-time request for you and they'll recharge at a rate of 2 per hour. Want to play nice? Ask the CDN to have the requested content ready in 3 hours. Got deep pockets? Pay for just as many real-real-time requests as you need.

What makes this so different is that unless customers are willing to hand over a lot of money, you dont need to cache anything to serve requests at all. Potentially not even later if you got enough capacity to serve the data for scheduled requests from the storage network directly.

You just generate an immediate promise response to the request telling them to come back later. And depending on what you put into that promise, you've got quite a lot of control over the schedule yourself.

- Got a "within 10min" request but your storage network has plenty if capacity in 30s? Just tell them to come back in 30s.

- A customer is pushing new data into your network around 10am and many bots are interested in getting their hands on it as soon as possible, making requests for 10am to 10:05? Just bundle their requests.

- Expected data still not around at 10:05? Unless the bots set an "immediate" flag (or whatever) indicating that they want whatever state the site is in right now, just reply with a second promise when they come back. And a third if necessary... and so on.

Re: Cloudflare crawl endpoint

#139

I'm surprised that Cloudflare hasn't started hosting a pre-scraped version of websites that use Cloudflare's proxy - something like https://www.example.com/cdn-cgi/cached-contents.json They already have the website content in their cache, so why not just cut out the middle man of scraping services and API's like this and publish it? Obviously there's good reasons NOT to, but I am surprised they haven't started offeri…

But think about poor phishers and malware devs protected by Cloudflare.

Re: Cloudflare crawl endpoint

#140
Could they collaborate with the website's creators that have websites behind cloudfare to allow their content to be accessed via an API in exchange of a compensation?. This could be a way to compensate creators and AI companies be able to access content that's unreachable as it's protected by cloudfare
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