Helsinki just went a full year without a single traffic death • Hacker News Board

Re: Helsinki just went a full year without a single traffic death

#131

Post by kerkeslager » Thu, Mar 05, 2026, 6:24 AM UTC

quickthrowman wrote: post #122

kerkeslager wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That’s reality, you aren’t going to change that unless you start executing people that speed, and that isn’t a realistic solution. This is an adult conversation, please think before you type absurdities like this. If (A) there was enough enforcement to actually catch people that speed, and (B) the punishment was rehabilitative (you have to clean up the roadway you were endangering people's lives on and take a class…

> This is an adult conversation, please think before you type absurdities like this. If (A) there was enough enforcement to actually catch people that speed, and (B) the punishment was rehabilitative (you have to clean up the roadway you were endangering people's lives on and take a class to retest for your license) there would be far fewer speeders. Red light cameras are illegal in my state, there isn’t enough money…

> It would be great if people would drive safely, but they don’t, so that’s why I think redesigning roads is the only real way to change driving behavior.

This is really the crux of it: why are you so insistent that we can only redesign roads? Why can we not redesign roads AND have people do community service?

An aside: red light cameras being illegal is such an unfortunate thing, but I really don't see a solution to that. My ideal world would have red light cameras that can only save the recording when they detect an infraction, so that everyone else's privacy is respected. But of course there's nobody I'd trust to implement, install, or use those cameras--law enforcement doesn't care about privacy--so we can't have red light cameras and have privacy.

Re: Helsinki just went a full year without a single traffic death

#132

Post by angiolillo » Thu, Mar 05, 2026, 2:46 PM UTC

hn_user82179 wrote: post #128

angiolillo wrote: post #125

For many years I commuted by bike in a city that prioritized driving convenience, speed, and free parking over safety and sense of place. I tried convince my neighbors that we ought to make different tradeoffs to improve safety and I volunteered at and financially supported various transportation safety groups. Ultimately I gave up and moved to a place that was a better fit and my only regret is not doing so sooner.…

Very curious what city you moved to if you don't mind sharing! I live in a small city that in its downtown proper has good bike infrastructure but everywhere else it is terrible and the broader area is very anti-cyclist unfortunately.

My situation was similar. I lived in a small city that trumpeted their aspirational walking and biking infrastructure but did nothing to change a driving culture and police force that were actively and physically hostile to anyone on foot or bike.

We initially moved to Arlington, MA. The Minuteman Bikeway runs right through the center of town and it's packed with commuters in the morning heading into Cambridge or Boston. It's also adjacent to Cambridge and Somerville where more than one in ten commutes are by bike, and fewer than half are by car.[1]

We eventually ended up moving slightly further out and sacrificing some walkability/bikeability for lower housing costs. But the bike racks at our schools are well-used even in the winter and I'm never the only cyclist on the road. There's also a growing network of rail trails like the Bruce Freeman and the Mass Central that are bringing out a lot more recreational cyclists. And contrary to their reputation, I've found Massachusetts drivers basically respectful of other road users, at least insofar as they generally give a wide berth and I've never had a MA driver throw something at me or do a punishment pass.

If you're curious about moving to a bike-friendly town in MA more generally, see https://www.redfin.com/blog/most-bikeable-cities-in-massachu... and peopleforbikes.org ratings.

[1] In 2024 Cambridge had ~11% bike commute mode share https://www.cambridgema.gov/-/media/Files/CDD/Transportation... and in 2021 Somerville had ~15% bike commute mode share https://s3.amazonaws.com/somervillema-live/s3fs-public/HSH_5...

Re: Helsinki just went a full year without a single traffic death

#133

Post by piva00 » Thu, Mar 05, 2026, 2:49 PM UTC

irishcoffee wrote: post #130

piva00 wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Ignoring all that, the actual question would be: how have car sizes and weights changed _in this region_ during this period of time. Sizes and weights of cars in brasil have little bearing to accidents in the PNW, for example. Sorry that I wasn't clear, that's exactly what I meant. I'm curious because it makes absolutely no sense that a safer urban design with separation of grades for cyclists, lowering speeds thro…

> There's also the added issue that American driving standards for a licence are incredibly low since it's kinda required for you to have a driver's licence to exist and have a life in the majority of the country. Relative to what?

Relative to developed countries like Germany, Norway, Sweden, Finland, Denmark, the Netherlands, so on and so forth.

Re: Helsinki just went a full year without a single traffic death

#134

Post by irishcoffee » Thu, Mar 05, 2026, 3:47 PM UTC

piva00 wrote: post #133

irishcoffee wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's also the added issue that American driving standards for a licence are incredibly low since it's kinda required for you to have a driver's licence to exist and have a life in the majority of the country. Relative to what?

Relative to developed countries like Germany, Norway, Sweden, Finland, Denmark, the Netherlands, so on and so forth.

First, each state has their own drivers test, lumping “the US driving test” into a single unit displays a clear lack of knowledge on the subject matter.

Second, actually trying to verify if you were right or not, you’re not. Germany, for example, has driving tests similar to the state of maryland in the US.

You are, unfortunately, incorrect and ignoring research/critical thinking skills.

Re: Helsinki just went a full year without a single traffic death

#135

Post by cyberax » Thu, Mar 05, 2026, 7:35 PM UTC

hn_user82179 wrote: post #127

cyberax wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sigh. You people are like these climate change deniers who are saying that "the climate is cooling" because this year is slightly cooler than the previous one. Your own article has a chart with the number of deaths by year, and the noisy upward trend from 2016 is pretty clear. But I admit that I did not check the data for 2025 before I wrote my post. So my post can be amended to: "Increased or stayed the same". There…

Idk who "you people" is referring to. But the trends for the cities who have been spending moneys on these improvements are better than nationwide. Not to mention the article we're discussing (improvements in Helsinki) explicitly attribute the decrease in traffic deaths to the same kind of improvements Seattle/Portland/SF have been making.

Better how? On what metrics? Pedestrian deaths did not go down: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47242382

> Not to mention the article we're discussing (improvements in Helsinki) explicitly attribute the decrease in traffic deaths to the same kind of improvements Seattle/Portland/SF have been making.

Let me repeat another poster here: "Correlation is not causation". Who's to say that Helsinki wouldn't have had zero deaths even without these changes?

Re: Helsinki just went a full year without a single traffic death

#136

Post by busterarm » Fri, Mar 06, 2026, 1:28 AM UTC

tombert wrote: post #124

busterarm wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Socialism's high death toll is the _direct_ result of the _implementation_ of socialist policies. No other form of governance shares this honor.

Umm, I would argue that Fascism shares that honor actually.

You mean the National Socialist party? Heh, no I don't think that Nazis were Socialists, but NSDAP certainly used socialist rhetoric to broaden the appeal of their party. In fact in Mein Kampf, Hitler makes the argument that Marxists merely hijacked Socialism and corrupted it.

In any case, I don't want to entertain horseshit. It turns out that if a significant part of your political ideology is about elevating one group of people at the expense of another, mass starvation and mass murder is an inevitable consequence.

The whole point about spotlighting catastrophically bad ideas is that hopefully nobody gets the stupid idea to try that shit again. Except here we are.

Re: Helsinki just went a full year without a single traffic death

#137

Post by busterarm » Fri, Mar 06, 2026, 1:31 AM UTC

tombert wrote: post #120

busterarm wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except it's not just Russia...

My point still stands. I think a lot of the awfulness that has come out of the implementations of socialism has come from greed. North Korea’s awfulness came because Kim Il Sung decided to appoint himself as king right after their revolution. Cuba’s awfulness came because Castro decided to appoint himself as king right after their revolution. I could keep going, but my point is, and call their surrounding system what…

I don't think greed really has much of anything to do with the Great Leap Forward and the mass famine that was a direct result of some of those policies.

I don't see how greed plays into telling farmers they need to stop farming and melt down all of their tools to make shitty pig iron that isn't worth a damn and then starve to death because they didn't grow any food. Or to stop long-established working farming practices in favor of the unproven ideas of some dumbass who thought they were smarter than simple farmers and had never done it.

Re: Helsinki just went a full year without a single traffic death

#138

Post by analognoise » Fri, Mar 06, 2026, 4:05 AM UTC

busterarm wrote: post #136

tombert wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Umm, I would argue that Fascism shares that honor actually.

You mean the National Socialist party? Heh, no I don't think that Nazis were Socialists, but NSDAP certainly used socialist rhetoric to broaden the appeal of their party. In fact in Mein Kampf, Hitler makes the argument that Marxists merely hijacked Socialism and corrupted it. In any case, I don't want to entertain horseshit. It turns out that if a significant part of your political ideology is about elevating one gr…

Can you explain what “elevating one group of people at the expense of another” is, in the context of socialism? I don’t see the connection.

Are you saying the current fascist operating mode of Trump is the dumb shit we’re trying again (here, “we” being “humanity”), or something else?

Just trying to clarify, my bad if it’s poor reading on my part; I was just confused at the line being drawn.

Re: Helsinki just went a full year without a single traffic death

#139

Post by MrSkelter » Fri, Mar 06, 2026, 8:47 AM UTC

Scoundreller wrote: post #44

philip1209 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

there's a reason speedbumps are called "silent policemen"

I call them SUV/pickup truck sellers or reasonably-sized-vehicle killers. Alternatively, greenhouse-gas bumps. Dunno which genius in my town put them on a road riddled with potholes, poorly filled road cuts and marsh-related unevenness.

That’s not how speed bumps work. You can drive over a speed bump in a sports car. It’s just uncomfortable and potentially damaging to do so at speed.

Most SUVs ride poorly compared to cars due to solid axles and huge unsprung weight. If you took a speed bump fast you would be very shaken up and possibly launch into the air or tip.

TLDR. Speed bumps aren’t “invisible” to SUVs unless you are in a competition pre-runner or a monster truck.

Re: Helsinki just went a full year without a single traffic death

#140

Post by wink » Fri, Mar 06, 2026, 11:36 AM UTC

owenversteeg wrote: post #87

wileydragonfly wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A 40% reduction in speed only causes a 5% increase in travel time? Are the majority of car trips spent sitting at stop lights??

I haven’t looked into this specific case, but most of the time the limiting factor is other traffic. You’re not traveling at full speed the whole time. If a lower speed adds 10 minutes to the average trip, but it reduces 9 minutes’ worth of traffic, you’ve only lost net one minute. A lower speed limit will often reduce traffic because the speed-up-slow-down behavior is reduced. Personally, I have driven around the Ne…

It's never that easy to calculate.

I have a long stretch of road near me that used to be 50 km/h and is now 30 km/h.

If you take that road during rush hour, yes - there's no meaningful difference in time spent. You'd be going traffic light to traffic light slightly faster.

The problem is that I personally use that road (in a car) more to pick up/drive my wife from and to early and late shifts at work than during rush hour, and this makes it take a significantly longer time. Like, I am not complaining at all, but it takes something like 20 minutes instead of 15, so like a 33% increase. And then again on the way back. But in the end being lucky with the traffic lights is still the main point.