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Following 35% growth, solar has passed hydro on US grid

arstechnica.com

131–140 of 481 posts

Re: Following 35% growth, solar has passed hydro on US grid

#131
post #22

I am reminded by the perhaps revisionist history but still applicable belief that slavery was really ended by industrialization making abolition economically advantageous and not actually a socially driven movement. (In reality it was certainly a convoluted mixture of the two I'm sure.) I hope we are in a similar era with regards to climate change. Surely there's a lot of money to be made in harnessing effectively un…

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Re: Following 35% growth, solar has passed hydro on US grid

#132
post #22

I am reminded by the perhaps revisionist history but still applicable belief that slavery was really ended by industrialization making abolition economically advantageous and not actually a socially driven movement. (In reality it was certainly a convoluted mixture of the two I'm sure.) I hope we are in a similar era with regards to climate change. Surely there's a lot of money to be made in harnessing effectively un…

I am quite hopeful. One benchmark that was passed only very recently was Levelized Full System Cost parity in Texas. That is, the total cost of generating electricity via renewables, importantly, including storage and infrastructure costs became equivalent to other options.

I don't think this gets talked about enough because its truly a milestone.

It's still more expensive in colder places, but the math is changing very fast.

Re: Following 35% growth, solar has passed hydro on US grid

#133
It's incredible to me that California's primary generation source is cyclical solar — which it primarily offloads to PNW [0], who offsets any missing California solar with its MASSIVE Columbia River Hydro.

Essentially co-dependant renewables, the entirety of West Coast through Colorado balancing primarily between solar and hydro (and natgas peakers). Nothing like Québec (¡hydro!), but still something.

[0] https://i.imgur.com/QMclWZu.png> grey "other" line == sold to neighboring grids

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If ERCOT ("Texas") would get over their independant grid "benefits" [i.e. not having to follow federal regulations], they could be sloshing their primarily wind-derived kWHs into an even more-beautiful grid of flowing renewables.

Instead, 10-year winter storms risk hundreds dead and billion$ lo$t.

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TVA is in planning stages for its second massive pump-storage facility — but Texas is probably wiser in its nascent battery storage investment [1], instead. TVA's Racoon Mountain Pumphouse is definitely impressive, but with all the upcoming "depleted" car batteries being reconditioned into the stationary electric storage market... water power storage is probably the more environmentally-damaging method (definitely more expensive?).

[1] https://imgur.com/a/Nm0TFs1>

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Screenshots via https://www.eia.gov/electricity/gridmonitor/dashboard/electr...>

[nerd warning: my favorite real-time dataset]

US Lower-48 Primary Energy Sourcing: https://i.imgur.com/BWXugy2.png>

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My layperson recommendations to industry [I'm blue-collar, electrician]: reduce coal, increase nuclear; increase micro battery storage (e.g. see Chattanooga's EPB implementations); maintain but stop building dams/pumped storage.

Solar/wind/nuclear/nat.gas will be able to run everything once we have enough battery storage to handle daily peaks. In a few more years we will be entirely able to remove our dependance from toxic coal [2]

[2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfvBx4D0Cms

Re: Following 35% growth, solar has passed hydro on US grid

#134
post #60
post #22

I am reminded by the perhaps revisionist history but still applicable belief that slavery was really ended by industrialization making abolition economically advantageous and not actually a socially driven movement. (In reality it was certainly a convoluted mixture of the two I'm sure.) I hope we are in a similar era with regards to climate change. Surely there's a lot of money to be made in harnessing effectively un…

Even if global greenhouse gas emissions immediately and permanently stop, climate change won’t. We have many years of further warming ahead of us due to the greenhouse gases already dumped into the atmosphere.

Then we move on to carbon capture at scale.

Re: Following 35% growth, solar has passed hydro on US grid

#136

I wonder why existing hydro isn't utilized to it's potential. For instance, the Grand Coulee Dam has the highest capacity of any power station in the US of almost 7 MW but usually puts out about a third of that.

It turns out that "releasing immense amounts of water downstream" can have side effects.

What do you think is happening to the water not being utilized in the production of power? I assumed it's still being run downstream, just not through the power producing turbines.

I'd expect there's not a big effect on the ultimate amount of water being released downstream either way.

Re: Following 35% growth, solar has passed hydro on US grid

#137
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am reminded by the perhaps revisionist history but still applicable belief that slavery was really ended by industrialization making abolition economically advantageous and not actually a socially driven movement. (In reality it was certainly a convoluted mixture of the two I'm sure.) More or less. Adam Smith famously wrote that slavery was economically detrimental way back in 1776. It still took nearly 100 years…

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If you own a lot of slaves your life is better than the freemen who own less/none, much less slaves. However society overall could be muca better even if for you personally it is worse

Re: Following 35% growth, solar has passed hydro on US grid

#138
post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It turns out that "releasing immense amounts of water downstream" can have side effects.

What do you think is happening to the water not being utilized in the production of power? I assumed it's still being run downstream, just not through the power producing turbines. I'd expect there's not a big effect on the ultimate amount of water being released downstream either way.

They let the reservoir fill up for when the power and/or drinking water is needed later.

The max is like a car engine’s redline. That the car can hit it doesn’t mean you should at all times.

Re: Following 35% growth, solar has passed hydro on US grid

#139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Being able to lounge around while others toil for your gain is absolutely economic. And being comfortable doing it via slave labor is cultural. > if you exclude the enslaved, the south had a higher GDP per capita If you exclude the murders, Ted Bundy was a really nice guy.

Like trying to assess the economy of the Third Reich while omitting that whole pesky war thing

They used slave labor too, don't forget!

Re: Following 35% growth, solar has passed hydro on US grid

#140
post #11

Related: Alec Watson’s recent, and excellent, Technology Connections YouTube piece on renewable energy. “You are being misled about renewable energy technology” https://youtu.be/KtQ9nt2ZeGM?si=CJ_Tt9DnWSKH8eGC

That entire talk didn't once mention the phrase "energy density" which is the real reason we rely so heavily on hydrocarbons. Additionally this talk makes the usual mistake of conflating "electricity" with "energy". While the US does have fairly high percentage of energy in the form of electricity it's still only around 33% of the US energy needs. And still we see that "green energy" only supplements not replaces our…

> That entire talk didn't once mention the phrase "energy density" which is the real reason we rely so heavily on hydrocarbons.

For planes. For no other major use of hydrocarbons is it the primary concern.

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