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The Misuses of the University

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Re: The Misuses of the University

#131

Post by bpt3 »

parpfish wrote: post #97
zer00eyz wrote: post #4

> With its 29 cantilevered roof planes and its clerestory glazed windows, it will quickly become the highlight of campus tours. Prospective students will look on with envy. Maybe it will attract more applicants. I got an ad the other day for a school (a mostly reputable one). They were talking about their award winning dining hall food... and the photos are over the top. Borrow a pile of money, to help fund a pretty…

one conspiracy theory i have been stewing on for years is that the luxuriousness of modern colleges was an intentional move to neuter the political power of the youth following the student unrest of the 60s and 70s. somebody made a conscious decision to turn college into a little utopian island divorced from reality to quell protests. students get their own on-campus entertainment venues, sports teams, luxurious dorm…

No, it's much simpler than that: Students have had access to seemingly endless amounts of cash to pay for school thanks to the increased accessibility of student loans and complete mismanagement of the oversight of those funds.

Re: The Misuses of the University

#132

Post by mghackerlady »

markus_zhang wrote: post #127
mghackerlady wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

please teach your child how computers work -signed someone baffled a 16 year old stared at me like I had 3 heads when I asked them to open a folder

I completely agree. I was astonished to learn from my friends that they saw not one, not two, but a percentage of young people who went through colleges but still don't know how to do simple things like printing from a desktop or using a word processor. My understanding is that they are so used to mobiles and pads, that their parents actually did not buy a computer for them (sometimes it is ignorance and sometimes it…

What don't you like about the linux cli? is it a UNIX thing or a GNU thing that you don't like? What makes CP/M like systems (CP/M, DOS, OS/2) better in that regard?. Personally I strongly recommend the Pi 400 for a first computer. Of course, that all depends on the child of course but the Pi 400 and 500 desktop kits are really great and the Pi 400 is cheap enough to not care that much about it breaking while still feeling more accessible than just a Pi in a case (or any desktop computer really, I feel like AIOs and Keyboard computers are the most accessible)

Re: The Misuses of the University

#133

Post by irishcoffee »

bpt3 wrote: post #102
hunterpayne wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because that's not what the GP was talking about. For example, say there is some controversial economic policy passed by one of the parties. Then a researcher goes out to research if the policy is working or not. But when they do the research, they find out that the policy doesn't work and has bad side effects too. However, the majority of the university votes and supports the party that passed the policy. So the res…

The GP invented some sort of conspiracy theory that doesn't really seem like it's worth discussing, whether it happens a lot or not in reality. Whether you believe what he said or not, my questions remain.

I stated facts, I invented nothing. I was asking a question that apparently rubbed you the wrong way, which is great! Makes you think!

Re: The Misuses of the University

#134

Post by hunterpayne »

bpt3 wrote: post #102
hunterpayne wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because that's not what the GP was talking about. For example, say there is some controversial economic policy passed by one of the parties. Then a researcher goes out to research if the policy is working or not. But when they do the research, they find out that the policy doesn't work and has bad side effects too. However, the majority of the university votes and supports the party that passed the policy. So the res…

The GP invented some sort of conspiracy theory that doesn't really seem like it's worth discussing, whether it happens a lot or not in reality. Whether you believe what he said or not, my questions remain.

The thing I described happened about 6 months ago.

Re: The Misuses of the University

#135

Post by fc417fc802 »

bpt3 wrote: post #129
fc417fc802 wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can we take a minute to consider that degrees aren't supposed to be aligned to career outcomes to begin with? That's what vocational schools are for. Somehow academia became conflated with both a job training program and an adult daycare service and (at least in the US) the result is a confused, inconsistent, expensive mess whose exact purpose isn't clear.

You want them to go back to being finishing schools for the wealthy, as they were before Hopkins (funnily enough) founded the first institute in the US that would be seen as a form of a modern university today? For people who aren't financially independent, education is a means to an end. Pretending that's not the case or worse, shouldn't be the case, is absurd to ask of anyone running a school and highly damaging to…

You're putting words in my mouth. I merely pointed out that they have a very confused mission thus I think it is not surprising that there is dysfunction.

We have vocational trade schools. We have professional guild schools (medical, dentistry, etc). At least some subset of students attends school with the intention of becoming professional researchers (ie pursuing a PhD, then a postdoc, then finally general employment).

I think it would be reasonable to expect undergraduate institutions to set unambiguous goals for each program. Students should know what they are signing up for. It would be fine to graduate with a certain amount of time spent explicitly on general education and a certain amount spent explicitly on vocational training with a specific target.

If you claim that education is a means to an end then what of (for example) history majors? I think the bachelors diploma itself is what became a means to an end much to the detriment of "pure" academia. The CS program at my undergrad spent time teaching us how to use version control. That's fantastic for a professional programmer but how does that have anything to do with CS as an academic pursuit? You can literally do much (perhaps all) of actual CS with nothing more than a pen and paper.

Re: The Misuses of the University

#136

Post by momoschili »

bpt3 wrote: post #96
momoschili wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The federal funds pay for it through the indirect costs funding its maintenance most likely... I suspect that represents a significant portion of the total cost of the building.

Universities are only allowed to include indirect expenses that are related to the research in question, not all expenses incurred by the university (such as a student center, dorm, stadium, etc.).

Well many buildings that are donated have research conducted within them. Not always a lot, but a large building is going to have plenty of uses. Eg stadiums often have medical research that is being conducted within them.

Re: The Misuses of the University

#137

Post by bpt3 »

irishcoffee wrote: post #133
bpt3 wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The GP invented some sort of conspiracy theory that doesn't really seem like it's worth discussing, whether it happens a lot or not in reality. Whether you believe what he said or not, my questions remain.

I stated facts, I invented nothing. I was asking a question that apparently rubbed you the wrong way, which is great! Makes you think!

I (and I believe the person I responded to) were talking about the comment above yours, which was a statement that Hopkins basically sells control of its research outcomes to donors.

Your question didn't bother me in the least, but I don't see why people are so surprised that a school or any other organization would accept millions and millions of cash to upgrade their surroundings.

Re: The Misuses of the University

#139

Post by irishcoffee »

bpt3 wrote: post #137
irishcoffee wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I stated facts, I invented nothing. I was asking a question that apparently rubbed you the wrong way, which is great! Makes you think!

I (and I believe the person I responded to) were talking about the comment above yours, which was a statement that Hopkins basically sells control of its research outcomes to donors. Your question didn't bother me in the least, but I don't see why people are so surprised that a school or any other organization would accept millions and millions of cash to upgrade their surroundings.

That's fair. I'm not surprised per se, I think the point is about the strings attached to accepting that money. At least that's how I've been reading this thread.

Re: The Misuses of the University

#140

Post by godelski »

gorgonical wrote: post #125
analog31 wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>> The "deal" often being made with academia is "we'll give you a place to do research, and even fund your research, but you have to teach the next generation." This isn't a bad deal, and is the reason many scientists give up MUCH larger paychecks that they'd get from the private sector to be a professor. These people would rather do research than have a more directed engineering (or engineering research) role that…

Regarding the teaching workload: This is not generalizable; during my undergraduate studies a significant fraction (maybe the majority? too long ago to be sure) of my classes were taught by graduate students, especially the math and computer science classes. At the graduate level, your statement was true for me at my second university. In fact, I'm not sure if a graduate student would be allowed even to teach a gradu…

At both the universities I went to most classes were taught by the professors. I say most because when I was the TA for my advisor (during my PhD) I taught his class. That said, the students were happier when he didn't show up to class and it was only me.

It definitely depends on the size of the university and the size of classes. As I was graduating a few grad students started becoming the official instructor. These were only the lower level courses though (freshman and sophomore). My partner's department had grad students teaching some classes for longer and they had a similar pattern.

My undergrad was at a small university with essentially no grad students. As far as coursework, I'm confident I got a better education than my peers that went to top schools like Stanford and Berkeley (I did physics). But they got more internships, connection to labs, and connection to research projects. YMMV

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