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Can you reverse engineer our neural network?

blog.janestreet.com

131–140 of 216 posts

Re: Can you reverse engineer our neural network?

#131
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very wrong. Arbitrage is not “insider trading”.

They're accused of opening short positions, then pumping and dumping to trigger the shorts. That's not arbitrage.

What? “Opening short positions then pumping and dumping to trigger the shorts” doesn’t make any sense at all. You’re saying they opened a position that profited if the price went down then they bought to raise the price

Re: Can you reverse engineer our neural network?

#132
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very wrong. Arbitrage is not “insider trading”.

They're accused of opening short positions, then pumping and dumping to trigger the shorts. That's not arbitrage.

That's not insider trading lol.

Re: Can you reverse engineer our neural network?

#134
post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By "pumping and dumping" do you mean "buying and selling" to outsmart other people trying to outsmart them? Did they lie about the financial health of the securities they traded?

Js manages trades for huge whales that can move markets by themselves. So yes it is textbook insider trading if you are placing options just before you move the whale.

which textbook would that be?

Re: Can you reverse engineer our neural network?

#135
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The market" here is just a convenient substitute for "people weighted by the disposable income", which today roughly approximates to "rich people".

what's your point?

"Market" is a proxy for other things, and different people mean different things when they say it. So when we talk about the "market" wanting or doing something, we aren't always talking about the same thing. This is important to realize, so that we don't conflate separate concepts and talk past each other.

Re: Can you reverse engineer our neural network?

#137
post #175

[stub for offtopicness]

Jane Street skims money from our retirement accounts by building expensive clocks that the rest of us don’t have access to and adversarial queue modeling. We get WWVB and NIST NTP. They say they “add liquidity” as if subsecond trades are some fundamental need in the market. Normal legitimate business settles daily. The contemporary concept of time in banking is inhumane in the strictest sense. These firms are a bligh…

[deleted]

Re: Can you reverse engineer our neural network?

#138
post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe I've drank the kool-aid, but I don't understand inflation to be an effect of a 'rigged system'. I think anyway you look at it, it's natural

Money is an IOU. It's not a secret that US central bank policy is to devalue those IOUs at a rate of 2% per year in order to artificially stimulate demand for production.

What an incredibly revisionist take on history.

For decades before that policy, a policy even the Bank of Canada holds, inflation was crazy high. The 80s saw inflation, in Canada, briefly hit over 20%, and double digit inflation was a regular thing.

Everyone decided 2% would be a good rate to aim for, that more control was better, to prevent inflation from flying out of control.

Then some dude comes along and tries to spin it like it's a conspiracy to hurt people.

Please, read a little history. Please.

Re: Can you reverse engineer our neural network?

#139

This is pretty cool, I wasn’t aware of these types of challenges. How does one even approach this? Feels to me like it’s similar to dumping a binary with an image, the format being entirely custom. And/or trying to decode a language or cipher, trying to recognize patterns.

I was one of the solvers. It took me about a week to figure out. This is what I wrote out in my submission with the answer:

> After looking at the final two layers I was somewhat quick to intuit that this was some sort of password check, but wasn’t entirely sure where to go from there. I tried to reverse it, but it was proving to be difficult, and the model was far too deep. I started evaluating the structure and saw the 64 repeated sections of 84 layers that each process 4 characters at a time. Eventually I saw the addition and XOR operations, and the constants that were loaded in every cycle, and the shift amounts that differed between these otherwise identical sections.

> I thought it was an elaborate CTF cryptography challenge, where the algorithm was purposely weak and I had to figure out how to exploit it. But I repeatedly was getting very stuck in my reverse-engineering efforts. After reconsidering the structure and the format of the ‘header' I decided to take another look at existing algorithms...

Basically it took a lot of trial and error, and a lot of clever ways to look at and find patterns in the layers. Now that Jane Street has posted this dissection and 'ended' this contest I might post my notebooks and do a fuller post on it.

The trickiest part, to me, is that for about 5 of the days was spent trying to reverse-engineer the algorithm... but they did in fact use a irreversible hash function, so all that time was in vain. Basically my condensed 'solution' was to explore it enough to be able to explain it to ChatGPT, then confirm that it was the algorithm that ChatGPT suggested (hashing known works and seeing if the output matched) and then running brute force on the hash function, which was ~1000x faster to compute than the model.

Re: Can you reverse engineer our neural network?

#140
post #175

[stub for offtopicness]

All I think when I see this is "this intelligence wasted on finance and ads." Can you imagine human potential if it was somehow applied to crop harvesting efficiency, new medicines, etc? Not everything has to be perfectly efficient but it just saddens me to see all these great minds doing what, adversarially harvesting margin from the works of others?

True, but also we wouldn't have AI if it weren't for ads -- ie Google invested in AI to help sell ads starting ~20y ago.
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