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We're no longer attracting top talent: the brain drain killing American science

theguardian.com

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Re: We're no longer attracting top talent: the brain drain killing American science

#131

Post by ohyoutravel »

eleventyseven wrote: post #96
cyanydeez wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

America is hostile to science and technology. I'm not sure how anyone with a functional desire to improve humanity decides "Hey, those americans, they sure do deserve better vaccines."

> I'm not sure how anyone with a functional desire to improve humanity decides "Hey, those americans, they sure do deserve better vaccines." Because people understand that people don't get to choose their government or culture and that everyone deserves better healthcare. Every child who is at risk from the rise of anti-vax 100% deserves better vaccines and ought to bear 0% responsibility for what the adults do.

Lots of folks vote against better healthcare. Perhaps they “deserve” better healthcare regardless as they’re human, but perhaps they deserve the outcomes they specifically voted for. Otherwise it feels a little paternalistic.

Re: We're no longer attracting top talent: the brain drain killing American science

#132

Post by xiphias2 »

testfrequency wrote: post #107
xiphias2 wrote: post #79

USA is still one of the top countries for scientists. Just as an example Europe had a few years of exporting the best GLP-1 drugs (finally something in which Europe was leader in science), Eli Lily quickly took it over. In software San Francisco is still the top for AI research: even when Peter Steinberger didn't know what he will do with OpenClaw, it was clear to him that the only place to move to was USA. Terrence…

I find the Peter mention funny because some of the other reasons he said it made sense to move to SF were that labor laws in Europe wouldn’t allow him to work 6-7 days a week, and he’d have to focus more on safety/responsibility in mind in Europe. He’s moving from London after all, arguably the global AI research hub. (Also likely SA told him the offer was contingent on him relocating)

I have never had problem working (and seeing other people work) 6-7 days a week in reality in Europe (even if it was unofficial).

But capital structures and politicians are still too close to old European companies from the second world war and don't allow venture capital to florish.

It's easier to earn money by winning a fake EU tender and giving back half of the money to a politician than doing something innovative.

Re: We're no longer attracting top talent: the brain drain killing American science

#133

Post by hermanzegerman »

xiphias2 wrote: post #79

USA is still one of the top countries for scientists. Just as an example Europe had a few years of exporting the best GLP-1 drugs (finally something in which Europe was leader in science), Eli Lily quickly took it over. In software San Francisco is still the top for AI research: even when Peter Steinberger didn't know what he will do with OpenClaw, it was clear to him that the only place to move to was USA. Terrence…

I'm not sure how making a copycat "me-too" drug, after one was successfully developed shows how innovative a country or company is?

Re: We're no longer attracting top talent: the brain drain killing American science

#134

Post by School-Cotton »

pitched wrote: post #103
mikestorrent wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, perhaps it is time for large, ethnically-homogenous countries that are on the ascent to adopt diversity policies of the sort that the US was approaching before the "vibe shift"

Canada is largely still homogeneous but still welcoming to immigrants and very close to the US. Rather than China totally changing cultures, I think it’s more likely that US-based companies will have large satellite offices in middle powers.

Canada is not ethnically or culturally homogeneous at all.

Re: We're no longer attracting top talent: the brain drain killing American science

#135

Post by nativeit »

nativeit wrote: post #127
pessimizer wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's over half the electorate. Stop changing the standards for democracy and holding the current ex-wrestling valet and game show host to standards than literally no one has been held to in history. It's a desperate, dishonest way to cover up the failure of the opposition to be any better.

An electorate is only as good as the information it uses to make the choice. Fewer than 10% of Americans both stated they routinely read a newspaper (in print or online) yet still walked into a voting booth in 2024 and voted for Trump.

I’m not saying he shouldn’t have won, we have the system we have, but to then act like he’s got a mandate is unjustifiable.

Re: We're no longer attracting top talent: the brain drain killing American science

#136

Post by hermanzegerman »

testfrequency wrote: post #107
xiphias2 wrote: post #79

USA is still one of the top countries for scientists. Just as an example Europe had a few years of exporting the best GLP-1 drugs (finally something in which Europe was leader in science), Eli Lily quickly took it over. In software San Francisco is still the top for AI research: even when Peter Steinberger didn't know what he will do with OpenClaw, it was clear to him that the only place to move to was USA. Terrence…

I find the Peter mention funny because some of the other reasons he said it made sense to move to SF were that labor laws in Europe wouldn’t allow him to work 6-7 days a week, and he’d have to focus more on safety/responsibility in mind in Europe. He’s moving from London after all, arguably the global AI research hub. (Also likely SA told him the offer was contingent on him relocating)

Nobody would stop him from working 6-7 days a week. Only for forcing his employees to do this involuntarily for him.

Re: We're no longer attracting top talent: the brain drain killing American science

#137

Post by shadowofneptune »

xiphias2 wrote: post #108
nerevarthelame wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Terrence Tao expressed sentiments are at odds with you and which align with the article: > The U.S. used to be sort of the default, the no brainer, option. If you got an offer from a top U.S. university, this was like almost the best thing that could happen to you as an academic ... If it's just a less welcoming, atmosphere for science in general here, the best and brightest may not automatically come to the US as th…

Not really, one is complaining, the other (which the article's title says) is voting with their feet. He could have gone to literally any country/university in the world and he chose not to. Also in the USA you just wait 4 (or 8) years and you have a new president. In many other countries you don't have that luxury.

That is also the curse of the US now. If your funding will only last a single presidential term, you can't ensure a livelihood. The instability of US budgeting and the wildly different priorities of incoming presidents is a huge source of uncertainty and cost.

Re: We're no longer attracting top talent: the brain drain killing American science

#138

Post by rahkiin »

michaelteter wrote: post #126
inglor_cz wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not everything is about money. The killer app of the US used to be that the US was rich and welcoming to foreigners and politically quite free. China or Saudi Arabia can wave their money around, but at least some people will be repulsed by the obligation to keep their mouths shut and praise the Dear Leader. Their cultural insularity does not help either. You can live in China, but you will never be accepted as Chines…

Are you suggesting that anyone who lives and works here in the US can be accepted as “American”? Are you also implying that in the US anyone is free to speak negatively of “dear leader”? There are a multitude of current examples to the contrary.

The comment used the past tense in every sentence

Re: We're no longer attracting top talent: the brain drain killing American science

#139

Post by misnome »

michaelteter wrote: post #126
inglor_cz wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not everything is about money. The killer app of the US used to be that the US was rich and welcoming to foreigners and politically quite free. China or Saudi Arabia can wave their money around, but at least some people will be repulsed by the obligation to keep their mouths shut and praise the Dear Leader. Their cultural insularity does not help either. You can live in China, but you will never be accepted as Chines…

Are you suggesting that anyone who lives and works here in the US can be accepted as “American”? Are you also implying that in the US anyone is free to speak negatively of “dear leader”? There are a multitude of current examples to the contrary.

> used to be

Re: We're no longer attracting top talent: the brain drain killing American science

#140

Post by ei8ths »

beloch wrote: post #25

>"Billions of dollars have been wiped from research budgets, almost 8,000 grants have been cancelled at NIH and the US National Science Foundation alone, and more than 1,000 NIH employees have been fired." ---------------- Scientists go where science is funded. A large proportion of U.S. scientists are also immigrants, who will tend to go where immigrants are welcomed.

have you seen our school systems, k12. Its terrible and in dire need of a revamp. No child left behind really screwed kids over that want to learn. We cant just let kids pass because of feelings. Made schools better, have alternative paths for kids that are not excelling like some of their peers and find school hard to sit through.
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