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America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

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Re: America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

#131

Post by CamperBob2 »

boelboel wrote: post #61
vladms wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't it more a cultural issue though? As a European, I think many Americans take pride and love to succeed "on their own" and accept they could "die trying" (exaggerating a bit, hence the quotes, but the feeling holds). Yes, the systems are amenable to acquiring more money, but I would claim that all that the richest need to do is to push the idea that "anyone can make it" - which was probably (more) true 50 years a…

A large part of it is originally rooted in racism if you look how the US implemented its welfare state. Many benefits were skewed towards white americans (GI Bill, right to claim land, redlining and social security). I'm sure most Americans aren't nearly as racist right now as back then but the being 'on their own' is linked to the 'don't want 'lazy' african americans to get benefits'.

How were Social Security and the GI Bill skewed towards white Americans, exactly? I haven't heard that before.

Re: America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

#132

Post by foxyv »

sam1714 wrote: post #120
foxyv wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't something the government gives you. It is something they have confiscated and held on to. > Your duty as a citizen is to work and build your nation What about the duty of the trust fund babies and idle wealthy? What about the duty of the capital owners? Why is the retirement age going up instead of down as productivity increases?

Not for the majority of retirement savings in the US, where Social Security makes up only about 25%. In the case of 401(k)s/DC plans and private pensions/DB plans, the government allowed savings without "confiscation," i.e. immediate taxation. They gave us the benefit of deferred taxation if you wait until retirement age.

What about the people who do not make enough to save and all their money goes to inflated living expenses? When do they get to retire?

Re: America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

#133

Post by raw_anon_1111 »

paulddraper wrote: post #119
atomicnumber3 wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah yes, the 4chan retirement plan. Die of a preventable cause at age 42 while waiting for your captcha.

If you accept that cancer is a death sentence, it’s not absurd to “self fund” your insurance with a nest egg. You can shop around quite a bit for non urgent care, and get good cash discount.

How much of a nest egg do you think would let you afford a major operation like heart surgery or cancer care?

Re: America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

#134

Post by foxyv »

stackbutterflow wrote: post #123
foxyv wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does the government get to decide when we retire?

This question cannot be asked in good faith on a user board. It requires an 800 pages book on politics, history, philosophy, economics to be properly answerered and it would barely scratch the surface. You might as well ask similar questions about most basic laws and concepts behind how western societies work.

Yes, you should be asking similar questions about most basic laws and concepts behind how western society works.

Re: America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

#135

Post by nick__m »

Sytten wrote: post #76

Forced savings like done in Quebec, Canada is likely the best model for most people even though I dont like it as an individual that knows how to manage its portfolio. It also has the benefit of creating a sovereign wealth fund that can invest locally and be an economic driver but independent from the government.

I actually like the forced saving of Québec. I also have a defined benefit pension plan, a TFSA and RRSP but I am happy to be forced to contribute the RRQ for the general welfare of the province even though I know how manage my portfolio.

Considering that they also have to consider economic development in their investment decisions, the RRQ funds are well managed by the CDPQ.

Re: America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

#136

Post by nosianu »

drivebyhooting wrote: post #86
nosianu wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless we scale back our lives significantly, and are fine with a lot less stuff and vacations and devices and modernized living (houses and transit today are vastly more complex systems than a few decades ago), there simply is no way to let a large number of people live like rich people. I grew up in East Germany, and while it was a total failure, they got at least one idea correct in the workers paradise: We need t…

Working as a painter for lack of imagination of what else to do is not fun. It reminds me of being “institutionalized” from Shawshank’s redemption.

[flagged]

Re: America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

#137

Post by carlosjobim »

glimshe wrote: post #115
raw_anon_1111 wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s almost impossible for an upper middle class couple to retire in the US before their 65 unless they have some type of government provided or private company provided health insurance like teachers, police officers, military etc. It’s about $25K a year for a decent plan which is doable. But you have to hope that Republicans - and yes this is a political issue - don’t successfully kill the ACA and make it impossibl…

The FIRE community and my own personal situation prove you very, very wrong. It's absolutely possible for a upper middle class family to retire in their 50s, even in their 40s, if they live frugally.

Thanks for living frugally. Since you now have some spare money, I decided it's time for a rent increase. And a tax increase.

Re: America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

#138

Post by c22 »

autoexec wrote: post #91
goolz wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These days I wonder about that duty I have. It sure felt obligatory some time ago. I thought of myself as a patriot and that the rule of law was something we we should be proud of. A country whose own anthem spoke of "liberty and justice for all". The current trajectory makes my question a lot of things, including this whole "government pays back that service with benefits" as it will be some time before I ever see a…

> A lot of our taxes in this country seem like a giant waste or are grossly inefficient at best. It's our duty to elect people who use tax dollars wisely and to vote out officials who neglect their responsibility to the people and use tax money to enrich themselves and anyone else willing to bribe them. Our government is filled with grifters because we've failed to hold them meaningfully accountable for robbing us an…

Psychologically the deterioration of we the people's power happens at an even more basic level when children are taught to resolve their conflicts by seeking out an adult.

Re: America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

#139

Post by bjourne »

glimshe wrote: post #115
raw_anon_1111 wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s almost impossible for an upper middle class couple to retire in the US before their 65 unless they have some type of government provided or private company provided health insurance like teachers, police officers, military etc. It’s about $25K a year for a decent plan which is doable. But you have to hope that Republicans - and yes this is a political issue - don’t successfully kill the ACA and make it impossibl…

The FIRE community and my own personal situation prove you very, very wrong. It's absolutely possible for a upper middle class family to retire in their 50s, even in their 40s, if they live frugally.

Statistics! Can a person below the median income afford to retire early? The answer is a resounding no. Can a person the top 10th percentile (upper middle class) afford to retire early? Yes.

Re: America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

#140

Post by [deleted] »

foxyv wrote: post #23
ecshafer wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The CPF sounds pretty clever. It covers a major individual cost and need (retirement, medical, housing) instead of just throwing it into a tax. It makes the government money. This sounds like a win win kind of policy.

Why does the government get to decide when we retire?

[deleted]
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