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AI optimism is a class privilege

joshcollinsworth.com

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Re: AI optimism is a class privilege

#131

Post by notanastronaut »

Retric wrote: post #37
jdross wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The set of people who believe the automobile (or the Internet) are net negatives taken as a whole for society is extremely small, for good reason

Is it? Do you include everyone that’s died or lost a loved one due to personal automobiles in that assessment? We are so far post automobile that it’s hard to compare, but many of the benefits are illusionary when you consider how society has evolved with them as commutes for example used to be shorter. Similarly the air used to be far cleaner and that’s after we got rid of leaded gas and required catalytic converter…

How many people have lived or had a loved one saved due to automobiles?

We have the benefit of hindsight but we're also making judgment calls looking back on fuzzy recollections, forgetting just how the past used to be before an innovation came along.

Re: AI optimism is a class privilege

#132

Post by bobro »

small_model wrote: post #21

It seems like the author hasn't really used the latest models, I wrote my last line of code about a month ago after 20+ years coding. Claude Code can do it for me, better faster and never gets tired etc. Yes I have to keep it on leash but humans coding is over, unless its to learn or for fun. Actually it's the lower classes that will escape the longest from AI replacing their jobs, unskilled physical work will remain…

AI is good at coding because it is heavily text focused with excellent documentation and a relatively clear binary on works/doesn’t work. I wouldn’t so quickly lump all other kinds of remote work into the same bucket based on your experience coding.

Re: AI optimism is a class privilege

#133

Post by notanastronaut »

delichon wrote: post #24

Unpopular opinion: the reverse. God created men, but Sam {Colt, Altman} made them equal. Commoditizing physical or intellectual power makes them more accessible to lower classes, and keeping them more expensive protects class privilege.

You're not alone in this line of thinking. While "AI" has its perils, it strikes a nerve on people who previously felt comfortable in their jobs. Worrying about AI is a privileged position, while poorer people cannot afford the luxury to do so.

Re: AI optimism is a class privilege

#134

Post by xnx »

tgv wrote: post #127
xnx wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also works if you substitute "technology" for "AI".

True, and other changes in society as well. But in contrast to e.g. the introduction of Phillips screws, AI (or rather: LLMs) is a biggy, and (IMO) one with where the negatives clearly outweigh the positives.

Definitely agree that LLMs are a big deal, but I'm holding out hope that they are a net positive. Even the current wave of false/fake news content could have benefits if it results in emphasizing chains of trust to reliable information.

Are there other technologies you think the negatives outweigh the positives? Leaded gasoline and paint come to mind for me.

Re: AI optimism is a class privilege

#135

Post by Retric »

notanastronaut wrote: post #131
Retric wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it? Do you include everyone that’s died or lost a loved one due to personal automobiles in that assessment? We are so far post automobile that it’s hard to compare, but many of the benefits are illusionary when you consider how society has evolved with them as commutes for example used to be shorter. Similarly the air used to be far cleaner and that’s after we got rid of leaded gas and required catalytic converter…

How many people have lived or had a loved one saved due to automobiles? We have the benefit of hindsight but we're also making judgment calls looking back on fuzzy recollections, forgetting just how the past used to be before an innovation came along.

I agree it’s difficult to do these calculations as society evolves with technology. Trains enable long distance evacuation from hurricanes. Street cars and subways allow for medical transportation but it looks very different than an ambulance. Similarly do we exclude helicopters assuming cars were simply banned rather than our failing to design IC engines or whatever.

That said, there are modern enclaves without cars mostly on islands or in very remote locations. They make due just fine without cars, it’s the low population density that’s at issue for medical care.

Re: AI optimism is a class privilege

#136

Post by tim333 »

tgv wrote: post #128
tim333 wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure that's true. Like I find the Google AI handy but that doesn't mean I have to ignore that others may be annoyed by it.

It's of course a quote of a handful of words from a 5000 word article. Not to be snarky, but did you read it?

I did read and I'll give you my comment wasn't that in line with the article. I'm not that convinced by the optimism being a class privilege thing though.

Re: AI optimism is a class privilege

#137

Post by _DeadFred_ »

raincole wrote: post #69
nomdep wrote: post #10

(I feel that I write a comment like this every few years) The author catalog of harms is real. But it's worth noting that nearly identical catalogs were compiled for every major technological shift in modern history. The Internet destroyed print journalism, local retail, and enabled cyberbullying and mass surveillance. If we applied the same framework used here, Internet optimism in 2005 was also a form of "class pri…

> But it's worth noting that nearly identical catalogs were compiled for every major technological shift in modern history. And it has been... quite a correct view? In the past few decades the US cranked up its Gini index from 0.35 to ~0.5, successfully eliminated single-earner housebuyers[0]. It's natural to assume the current technology shift will eliminate double-earner housebuyers too. The next one would probably…

The scifi books were right in predicting future relationships would be poly, they just didn't explain it was because it was the only way people would be able to afford to live.

Re: AI optimism is a class privilege

#138

Post by _DeadFred_ »

pixl97 wrote: post #19

So the problem here is this isn't an article about AI. When the Luddities broke machines and burned the buildings that held them it wasn't because they hated machines (well at least initially). It's because they hated starving in the streets. This is just a continuing part of the class war that has been going on since humanity started writing. Now, the only thing that might make this different is class/capital may ha…

The very reason why we object to state ownership, that it puts a stop to individual initiative and to the healthy development of personal responsibility, is the reason why we object to an unsupervised, unchecked monopolistic control in private hands. We urge control and supervision by the nation as an antidote to the movement for state socialism. Those who advocate total lack of regulation, those who advocate lawlessness in the business world, themselves give the strongest impulse to what I believe would be the deadening movement toward unadulterated state socialism.

--Theodore Roosevelt

Re: AI optimism is a class privilege

#139

Post by EA-3167 »

WalterBright wrote: post #103
EA-3167 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not arguing in favor of it, I’m just aware of how the world works. You also seem to have forgotten France among other places where the history wasn’t as grim as Russia. Frankly nothing Russia has ever done seems to make their lot better.

You're overlooking the Reign of Terror. Consider Pol Pot (Cambodia). How'd that work out? Cuba? How'd that go? Venezuela, anyone? For a counter-example, the US. The greatest rise in the standard of living in history, with free markets where paupers could get rich.

I'm not overlooking anything, including the desperate circumstances that led things like the French revolution and ensuing violence. The US went through a war to be free, plenty of people died and it could have easily gone another way. If everyone followed your advice India would still belong to the UK.

I also think it's unhelpful to compare utter madness like the killing fields of Cambodia with a typical (even failed) revolution. More typical outcomes can be seen in the wake of the "Arab Spring", which arguably achieved nothing at great cost. That doesn't mean that people won't try again though, drowning people are dangerous and irrational, and I'd argue that's why leaders and people with power should work very hard to prevent those circumstances from emerging.

In a country like the US it isn't that hard.

Re: AI optimism is a class privilege

#140

Post by elzbardico »

caconym_ wrote: post #118
elzbardico wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And if money loses value why would the guys with guns and the guys who run the AI still take orders from the oligarchs?

I'm going to assume this is meant as a reply to https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47043601 but my answer is the same: why (in this hypothetical scenario) are you assuming the AI owners aren't members of all three of these classes?

The guys who run the AI are the scientists and the programmers, not Sam Altman, neither Dario.
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