Switzerland to vote on capping population at 10M • Hacker News Board

Re: Switzerland to vote on capping population at 10M

#131

Post by 9x39 » Sat, Feb 14, 2026, 10:03 PM UTC

rimbo789 wrote: post #91

9x39 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This view reduces countries to nothing more than oversized hotels or economic zones, as if they don’t have communities that go back many generations and who would fight or die to defend the borders. Think this through: If the world likes your real estate, they can just come in and take it over overnight? Borders suddenly don’t matter? Pop caps can easily be understood as visa or naturalization buffers. Hysteria doesn…

Nationalism and borders have done very little for humanity. The world would be a better place if we defined our communities by how we welcomed people and not by who we excluded

If that was the case, there would be no need to worry about migrating to the area formerly-known-as-Switzerland to be among its people, would there?

The people who clamor for moving there now could simply remake what they imagine liking about it in another area - careful not to erect borders or engender any kind of pride or loyalty to what they build, naturally.

Re: Switzerland to vote on capping population at 10M

#132

Post by OGEnthusiast » Sat, Feb 14, 2026, 10:08 PM UTC

constantius wrote: post #125

thrance wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Explain how. All the anti-immigration guys I've ever met were right-wingers. And we know the right's position on housing: never do anything that would devalue housing, never anger homeowners, always side with landlords, etc.

I don't know whether I'd call myself anti-immigration, but I'm as left as they come and I don't think that being pro-immigration is a left/right value. You can be on the left and have objections to immigration, you can be on the right and welcome immigration. I invite you to read the book [How Migration Really Works]( https://goodreads.com/book/show/82005192-how-migration-reall... ). Most people think that being anti…

Being anti-immigration is actually left-wing and pro-labor in most functional countries in the EU. It’s only in the US and the UK where being left-wing also being means pro-open borders, however odd that may be.

Re: Switzerland to vote on capping population at 10M

#133

Post by kelseyfrog » Sat, Feb 14, 2026, 10:15 PM UTC

ndriscoll wrote: post #103

kelseyfrog wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only the market can decide what's better or worse. Revealed preference is truer than words.

Wouldn't a referendum to limit immigration be the way to reveal their preference? Obviously immigrants would tautologically prefer to move there. How is a citizen to "vote" against that via the market? Discriminate and refuse to rent/sell to any immigrants? Charge them more to try to offset their perceived loss of utility? What portion of the country is even in a position to be asked the question via the market?

No, because money is the only thing that measures value. People vote against their interests all the time.

Re: Switzerland to vote on capping population at 10M

#134

Post by thrance » Sat, Feb 14, 2026, 10:37 PM UTC

OGEnthusiast wrote: post #132

constantius wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know whether I'd call myself anti-immigration, but I'm as left as they come and I don't think that being pro-immigration is a left/right value. You can be on the left and have objections to immigration, you can be on the right and welcome immigration. I invite you to read the book [How Migration Really Works]( https://goodreads.com/book/show/82005192-how-migration-reall... ). Most people think that being anti…

Being anti-immigration is actually left-wing and pro-labor in most functional countries in the EU. It’s only in the US and the UK where being left-wing also being means pro-open borders, however odd that may be.

That is completely false. Anti-immigration is the main (if not only...) talking point of every far right political parties accross Europe.

Re: Switzerland to vote on capping population at 10M

#135

Post by thrance » Sat, Feb 14, 2026, 10:49 PM UTC

constantius wrote: post #125

thrance wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Explain how. All the anti-immigration guys I've ever met were right-wingers. And we know the right's position on housing: never do anything that would devalue housing, never anger homeowners, always side with landlords, etc.

I don't know whether I'd call myself anti-immigration, but I'm as left as they come and I don't think that being pro-immigration is a left/right value. You can be on the left and have objections to immigration, you can be on the right and welcome immigration. I invite you to read the book [How Migration Really Works]( https://goodreads.com/book/show/82005192-how-migration-reall... ). Most people think that being anti…

I would consider myself well on the left too, and I mostly agree with what you're saying. But I simply reject the premise that anti-immigration policies and the people who support them do anything to help curb the housing crisis or improve working conditions. Immigration can be a net positive for the general population, if it goes hand-in-hand with worker and tenant protections, etc.

> Corporations and the right are very much pro-immigration. Would you have expected that?

Corporations and the old right, maybe, but the new populist right is very much anti-immigration. It is their main talking point and platform in today's political landscape.

Re: Switzerland to vote on capping population at 10M

#136

Post by hypeatei » Sat, Feb 14, 2026, 11:30 PM UTC

frumplestlatz wrote: post #117

hypeatei wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's much easier to blame the out group for your issues. The US currently has a sizable percentage of people that believe ICE deportations are going to lower housing prices, for example.

Does supply and demand apply or not? Building houses increases supply. Deportations reduce demand.

Immigrants make up 32.5% of construction workers[0] so without them we're unable to build new housing unless you have a solution to the falling birth rate and human capital. Also, they're more likely to reside with extended family or non-family members[1] (i.e. not eating up single family home supply)

So yes, while they might have some effect on housing supply, deporting them won't make a dent in prices. If you believe that deportations = cheaper houses, then I have a bridge to sell you. Too many localities have strict building regulations that artifically keep housing prices inflated; deportations won't do anything to fix that.

0: https://www.nahb.org/advocacy/industry-issues/labor-and-empl...

1: https://news.cornell.edu/stories/2019/02/living-arrangements...

Re: Switzerland to vote on capping population at 10M

#137

Post by bookofjoe » Sat, Feb 14, 2026, 11:52 PM UTC

KellyCriterion wrote: post #23

spwa4 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be honest during WWII, Switzerland was surrounded by the Nazis. Literally. On all sides, and learned a harsh lesson on not just the importance of military readiness but also economic resilience. So they took what they could get.

Switzerland is the best munitioned country on earth, because: After military service, most people keep their guns and are forced to yearly practicing (or loosing the gun) etc. - they are battle-ready every time. Plus: they are the only(!) country on earth who could offer bunker protection to 95%+ of society in case of war.

Second place?:

>Finland has civil defence shelters for about 4.8 million people [population 5.7 million]

https://valtioneuvosto.fi/en/-/1410869/finland-has-civil-def...

Re: Switzerland to vote on capping population at 10M

#138

Post by kelseyfrog » Sat, Feb 14, 2026, 11:58 PM UTC

api wrote: post #120

kelseyfrog wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How? I can't seem to affect any control the factors that constraint housing. I want to build more, but short of becoming a developer myself, I'm powerless. Even if I were a developer, I'd likely be subject to the same structural forces.

The main impediments are density limits, zoning, onerous permitting requirements, lawsuits from NIMBY groups to block everything, and so on. The entire developed world is basically a big housing cartel where existing home owners work to limit supply to keep the price high.

It feels like the most effective strategy is to Simple Sabotage[1] Field Manual the NIMBY groups. Am I picking up what you're putting down?

1. https://www.cia.gov/static/5c875f3ec660e092cf893f60b4a288df/...

Re: Switzerland to vote on capping population at 10M

#139

Post by ndriscoll » Sun, Feb 15, 2026, 12:57 AM UTC

kelseyfrog wrote: post #133

ndriscoll wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't a referendum to limit immigration be the way to reveal their preference? Obviously immigrants would tautologically prefer to move there. How is a citizen to "vote" against that via the market? Discriminate and refuse to rent/sell to any immigrants? Charge them more to try to offset their perceived loss of utility? What portion of the country is even in a position to be asked the question via the market?

No, because money is the only thing that measures value. People vote against their interests all the time.

Again, how is money supposed to measure value here? Are people supposed to look into whether every company interacts with immigrants in any way and then boycott them if they do? The only avenue I see is for people to look at the aggregate economic benefits of immigration and then decide to limit it anyway, effectively treating the opportunity cost as the price they're willing to pay.

Re: Switzerland to vote on capping population at 10M

#140

Post by constantius » Sun, Feb 15, 2026, 1:13 AM UTC

thrance wrote: post #135

constantius wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know whether I'd call myself anti-immigration, but I'm as left as they come and I don't think that being pro-immigration is a left/right value. You can be on the left and have objections to immigration, you can be on the right and welcome immigration. I invite you to read the book [How Migration Really Works]( https://goodreads.com/book/show/82005192-how-migration-reall... ). Most people think that being anti…

I would consider myself well on the left too, and I mostly agree with what you're saying. But I simply reject the premise that anti-immigration policies and the people who support them do anything to help curb the housing crisis or improve working conditions. Immigration can be a net positive for the general population, if it goes hand-in-hand with worker and tenant protections, etc. > Corporations and the right are…

> I simply reject the premise that anti-immigration policies and the people who support them do anything to help curb the housing crisis or improve working conditions.

I think you're again fighting a right-wing anti-immigration stance. I'm talking about the opposite of that.

> Immigration can be a net positive [...] if it goes hand-in-hand with worker and tenant protections

I'm certain you can see that this is a huge if. In practice, limiting immigration can indeed avoid worsening the housing crisis or decreasing wages, which can indeed help the relevant unions/charities campaign more effectively.

Reasoning by extreme: would you agree that importing 2M people per year to the UK would make the housing market and wages worse, independent of any ifs? Then you agree that there is a threshold where there is too much immigration, even with perfect conditions.

> right is very much anti-immigration

The Tories were very much anti-immigration, if you looked at their talking points. They were very much pro-working class, and Labour is very-much pro-human rights and pro-democracy. What they do is different.