Earlier quoted context omitted.
But it is evidence for causation.
Is it?
Yes. If A is correlated with B, is A more likely to cause B than if A is not correlated with B? Clearly yes.
Open source is not about you (2018)
131–140 of 196 posts
Re: Open source is not about you (2018)
#132> As a user of something open source you are not thereby entitled to anything at all I understand what the author means, but I think that in any human-2-human interaction, we are all entitled to at least basic courtesy. For example, if you show courtesy by contributing to an open source project and following all the guidelines they have, I think it's fair to assume that courtesy will be shown in return. I know that m…
> I understand what the author means, but I think that in any human-2-human interaction, we are all entitled to at least basic courtesy. This only holds up for the "small" number of human interactions the average person gets. If my neighbor comes and rings my doorbell to say hello, I'm fine answering and shooting the shit, maybe invite them in for a quick coffee. If every 5 minutes a strange comes in and rings my doo…
Ah the dehumanizing nature of affluence… a right of passage for those fortunate enough to experience.
The challenge is in how to manage and and maintain the interest, less one falls back into the realm of obscurity or worse be tarnished reputationally so as to never recover.
Re: Open source is not about you (2018)
#133This is the attitude that made me keep my patches to myself. Hey, you, FOSS maintainer, whoever you are: - If you make your project public, it means you want and expect people to use it. You could at least write some documentation, so I don't waste my time and then find out, days later, it isn't capable of what I need or I simply don't know how to use it. - If you set up a bug tracker, then at least have the decency…
> me keep my patches to myself.
Exactly.
Nobody is entitled to your patches.
Re: Open source is not about you (2018)
#134Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm not saying you're wrong - but I do detest that attitude myself As you say, trust is a two way street, and first time contributors are being expected to trust that it's not personal when they are met with brusquerie. I know it's hard when it's the 99th person and you've had to deal with 98 less than nice individuals, but defaulting to an abrupt or blunt manner does nobody any favours.
What’s the solution then? This is one of those emotional-labor questions. Who is responsible for new contributors having a good experience? Especially thousands of eager, misinformed contributors? It’s a DDOS that exhausts and burns out the maintainer even while the supply of newbie contributors is rarely meaningfully impacted by maintainer conduct. The world has givers and takers, and we are all both at different ti…
I've also seen maintainers complain about "drive by contributors" where one complaint is that the submitter has provided a good patch/PR, but doesn't stick around to support it.
From the submitters point of view, why /would/ you stick around if your first (and only) interaction with the project is less than "ideal"
FTR I absolutely understand the "burnout" maintainers experience dealing with contributors that drain energy as well.
Re: Open source is not about you (2018)
#135[dead]
It's an interesting world for sure, I maintain a somewhat popular package and got a form to fill from a Deloitte consultant about security once. They seemed genuinely confused when I told them I was not going to fill compliance form and make patching commitments for free. Really makes you wonder how many maintainers are letting themselves be taken advantage of.
> got a form to fill from a Deloitte consultant about security once.
It could be someone trying to extract free work, but in my experience this person was probably trained by someone else about how to handle vendor compliance for contracted vendors.
Some times the people in these grunt work consulting positions aren't really knowledgable about the space. They're in those positions because they can follow directions and will diligently grind out billable hours. Their default mode for getting things done is to try what worked last time, and if that fails they just start looking for names to send the request to until someone does it.
As others mentioned, you could have said "Compliance forms are $1000, payable to ____" and the consultant may have diligently gone through their mental process about where to direct invoices for work.
Re: Open source is not about you (2018)
#136Earlier quoted context omitted.
> - If you make your project public, it means you want and expect people to use it. no, it doesn't, maybe I have a github project, I want to easily share it with ten of my friends for something, I don't particularly care if other people see it, so I make it public. That in no way implies I want random people to come along with bugs and PRs. > You could at least write some documentation, so I don't waste my time and t…
> no, it doesn't, maybe I have a github project, I want to easily share it with ten of my friends for something, Then make it private. > I don't particularly care if other people see it, so I make it public. Yeah, I see someone else made the same argument. It's a reckless disregard of other people's time and nerves. Build labyrinths and scatter them around the internet. Leave manholes uncovered. Markov chains to trap…
Anything you in a public space, will be made social by someone eventually. If you (GP) don't like it then tough shit. That's a You Problem, not an Us Problem.
And you can make github repositories that others can see but not the rest of us, it just costs a little money. You can host a book club at your house too and not have to listen to other people snicker at your friends' commentary on the book at the coffee shop. But if they're gonna keep saying stupid shit in the middle of a Starbucks, then someone is going to butt in.
Re: Open source is not about you (2018)
#137Earlier quoted context omitted.
Picture this scenario. You make one really good birthday cake. Following the success of this went to your local school fete out of the goodness of your heart and set up a cake stall, had a complaints and suggestions box on the table, maybe even had a donation tin out. You know it's out of the goodness of you heart because everyone will SEE you doing this and maybe you'll get hired by the local bakery. But then it's a…
Now imagine I make a weird cake and I think it's interesting. I put up a poster with a photo and a recipe and say "thought this was cool, try it if you want." And then some nonce comes along and tells me off for a reckless disregard of other people's time and nerves. Compares it to an open manhole cover that could get somebody killed. Throwing some interesting code onto a web site isn't like setting up a booth at a c…
Probably won't get anyone killed, but I've seen loss of data. Valuable data. And now you're going to point to the disclaimer and 321 backups...
Websites are seen by everyone seeking not a site, but a feature, via search engines. Same as a poster if you look in that direction.
Re: Open source is not about you (2018)
#138This is the attitude that made me keep my patches to myself. Hey, you, FOSS maintainer, whoever you are: - If you make your project public, it means you want and expect people to use it. You could at least write some documentation, so I don't waste my time and then find out, days later, it isn't capable of what I need or I simply don't know how to use it. - If you set up a bug tracker, then at least have the decency…
I can't tell if this is satire or not. I fear that it's not. "If you make your project public, it means you want and expect people to use it. You could at least write some documentation, so I don't waste my time and then find out, days later, it isn't capable of what I need or I simply don't know how to use it." WTF? If I make it public it's because I think other people might like to see it. That runs the gamut from…
I sing in the shower all the time. I'd rather have my fingernails pulled out one at a time and the video sold to psychopaths than go to an open mic night or participate in a talent show.
I know what I am and I know the degree to which people suck. Don't walk into abuse teeth first and then make a surprise Pikachu face about it.
Re: Open source is not about you (2018)
#139Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Then make it private You don't get to decide that. > It's a reckless disregard of other people's time and nerves. Build labyrinths and scatter them around the internet. Leave manholes uncovered. That's a *you* problem, because you have wrong expectations. > Then close bug tracker and post "Abandoned" on the front page. You don't get to decide that. > Then say so and then reject them. That's what PR review means. I…
> [...] you have wrong expectations. I did. (Past tense.) I'm calibrated now. > You don't get to decide that. You're exactly right. I only get to decide what I do with my own toys. And I've decided I won't waste any of my time. If you (plural) can't write a one line answer to a bug report or click a reject PR button, then why should I put any effort? Isn't it nice "git clone" was invented?
Just sounds like you've moved the goal posts to something completely different. This entire statement is addressing people frustrated with their half broken PRs being closed. It has nothing to do with "not clicking the reject button"
Re: Open source is not about you (2018)
#140Earlier quoted context omitted.
> no, it doesn't, maybe I have a github project, I want to easily share it with ten of my friends for something, Then make it private. > I don't particularly care if other people see it, so I make it public. Yeah, I see someone else made the same argument. It's a reckless disregard of other people's time and nerves. Build labyrinths and scatter them around the internet. Leave manholes uncovered. Markov chains to trap…
Anything you in a public space, will be made social by someone eventually. If you (GP) don't like it then tough shit. That's a You Problem, not an Us Problem. And you can make github repositories that others can see but not the rest of us, it just costs a little money. You can host a book club at your house too and not have to listen to other people snicker at your friends' commentary on the book at the coffee shop.…
Making a PR is also in the public space, and if your PR is lazy spam, you deserve a less generous response than the one Hickey gave.