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The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

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Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#131

Post by mothballed »

chickensong wrote: post #123
eli wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Flying without ID just gets you the full patdown treatment. It’s not like they’re tracking down people to vouch for you.

It's not just a patdown. They take you to a phone booth that has a direct line to some portion of the FBI IIRC, and they ask you a bunch of questions to confirm your identity. At least this is what happened to me about ten years ago when I lost my wallet in a different state and needed to fly home.

... and the law in most states requires only that you give your name and possibly your DOB to the authorities upon detainment. So as a purely academic exercise, what can they even do if you refuse to answer beyond that? Obviously in practice they will fuck with you or just straight up violate the constitution, but theoretically I'm unsure how they can continue to seize you after that.

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#132

Post by raw_anon_1111 »

ibejoeb wrote: post #110
hamdingers wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All states do (for now). Not everyone qualified to drive is capable of proving their identity to the level RealID requires.

As far as I know, Florida does not issue documents that are not REAL ID compliant.

And this is the same state that said they will have drivers license tests in English only

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#133

Post by ehasbrouck »

calmbonsai wrote: post #71
cmiles8 wrote: post #11

You have the right to try and fly without an ID. The airlines also have the right to tell you to buzz off and get lost and the airport operator has the right to decide they don’t want you in the building and trespass you if you don’t scram.

You have an absolute "right to travel" (see the 14th amendment and other cases as recently as 1999), but you're also absolutely correct that "common carriers" can can refuse commercial service and you can be criminally trespassed from an airport, BUT TSA can not charge you a fee to attempt to fly.

Unlike other service providers, a common carrier by definition cannot refuse service to anyone willing to pay the fare in the tariff. Common carrier laws are some of the oldest consumer protection laws, enacted to protect travelers and shippers of goods against predatory and discriminatory pricing. Federal law recognizes the "public right of transit" by air, and requires boith airlines and Federal agencies to respect it.

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#135

Post by jacobgkau »

deepsun wrote: post #118
BryantD wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am only guessing but I'd be surprised if it was a money grab. My instinct is that it's a way of highlighting RealID citizenship verification.

RealID is unrelated to citizenship. It's a proof of an address, akin to soviet-style "propiska", which was very important and hard to get without (it also affected ownership/inheritance). What's more fun is that even though they accept different types of residence, they mostly trust utility bills -- but to set up utilities on your name even for your personal home utility company will ask a lot of documents, including…

It's hardly proof of address. At best, I'd say it's proof of state residency.

I've moved several times since getting my Colorado driver's license (a REAL ID). Technically, you are supposed to submit a change-of-address form to the DMV online within 30 days of moving. They don't send you a new card when you do that; the official procedure is to stick a piece of paper with your new address written on it to your existing ID yourself, and then just wait until your next renewal to actually get a card with the new address on it. The change of address form does not require utility bills or any other proof of the new address-- that's only required when you initially get the driver's license.

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#136

Post by Forgeties79 »

crazygringo wrote: post #88
Forgeties79 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Most” people can have it and there’d still be millions (tens of millions, even over 100mill) of people who don’t. Multiple states don’t even require it. That guarantees several million people right there. I think New York is one, so well over 10mill people don’t require it. Do you seriously think most of those people are getting one anyway? Guarantee you there are millions of people without it if not tens of million…

America only has 340 million people to begin with. Then, half the population doesn't even fly in a given year. Those that do are mostly aware of the RealID requirement and either got it whenever they last renewed their driver's license, or renewed early because their DMV kept mailing them warnings about needing to do so if they wanted to fly. Yes, most people who fly either have it, or are getting it before their nex…

You keep saying “most” which I agreed with for starters and still leaves a ton of people.

Also almost half the population flies annually, so we’re starting around 150mill.

You need numbers at this point. I am willing to bet millions flying don’t have it.

Here’s an article from April 2025: https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/real-id-deadline-may/

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#137

Post by rngfnby »

t-3 wrote: post #99
raw_anon_1111 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many of the “working poor” can afford to fly and don’t have a drivers license? All 50 states and 5 US territories issue RealID compliant drivers license/ID

Flying domestically is usually cheaper than driving once you get past the range of a tank of gas or two. Also, RealID isn't fully permeated yet - my state won't fully phase out non-RealIDs until 2029.

"once you get past the range of a tank of gas or two."

This is like the folks who say flying is more carbon friendly than driving. It's wrong, you're comparing a vehicle running cost with one passenger vs a full vehicle normalized by its capacity.

No one flies 30 mi commutes.

Few drive 600+ mi empty or alone.

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#138

Post by crazygringo »

mothballed wrote: post #131
chickensong wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just a patdown. They take you to a phone booth that has a direct line to some portion of the FBI IIRC, and they ask you a bunch of questions to confirm your identity. At least this is what happened to me about ten years ago when I lost my wallet in a different state and needed to fly home.

... and the law in most states requires only that you give your name and possibly your DOB to the authorities upon detainment. So as a purely academic exercise, what can they even do if you refuse to answer beyond that? Obviously in practice they will fuck with you or just straight up violate the constitution, but theoretically I'm unsure how they can continue to seize you after that.

...they don't let you fly.

They can't detain you (if you're not otherwise some kind of suspect, and you're not trying to assault them or sprint past security or anything), but they don't let you fly.

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#139

Post by StillBored »

calmbonsai wrote: post #71
cmiles8 wrote: post #11

You have the right to try and fly without an ID. The airlines also have the right to tell you to buzz off and get lost and the airport operator has the right to decide they don’t want you in the building and trespass you if you don’t scram.

You have an absolute "right to travel" (see the 14th amendment and other cases as recently as 1999), but you're also absolutely correct that "common carriers" can can refuse commercial service and you can be criminally trespassed from an airport, BUT TSA can not charge you a fee to attempt to fly.

But the airlines don't really give a crap, southwest started basically as an air bus, show up buy a ticket get on. No reservation, no id, nothing.

The airlines don't even check ID most of the time with these electronic boarding passes if your not checking luggage.

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#140

Post by crazygringo »

eitally wrote: post #113
crazygringo wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The TSA is literally doing all this extra work though, whether or not you think it's required by law. They're not just pocketing the $45 and then blindly waving you ahead.

Let's be more precise. The TSA has created extra work for themselves, and are charging us for it, whether it's legally required or not (because they pretend that it is).

Sure. But it's not "pretend". It's genuine regulatory policy they've created because they believe it's necessary for security, and this has been a decades-long project. The article is arguing they don't ultimately have the legal authority to make that regulatory policy. Maybe that'll go to court and be tested, maybe they'll win and maybe they'll lose. If they lose, maybe Congress will pass explicit legislative authorization the next day, and maybe that'll be brought to court, and the Supreme Court will have to decide if it violates the 14th amendment or not. But it's not "fake work", it's actually doing a thing.
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