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Ode to the AA Battery

jeffgeerling.com

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Re: Ode to the AA Battery

#131

Post by accounting2026 »

MarkusWandel wrote: post #15

Am I courting disaster by reviving won't-charge pouch cells by just manually running a bit of current through them until they're nonzero volts and then a normal charger will do the rest? So far, in the maybe half dozen times I've tried it (rectangular battery blocks for old digital cameras, the pouch cell inside a long-disused Kobo Reader) it's worked. They charge right up, they don't swell, and they still have decen…

About 15 years ago I was writing software for an embedded device made by another company, and they sent us a unit for testing. It had a small rectangular rechargeable lithium battery that was charged via a DC jack.

At one point I hadn’t kept it charged, the battery went completely flat, and after that it would no longer charge at all. When I called the company, they said the battery was now too deeply discharged and required an “intelligent” charger to revive it. They sent a charger with a slot for the bare battery; some LEDs blinked in various patterns for a while, and eventually normal charging resumed.

I’ve always wondered what that charger actually did, that the built-in charger was not capable of. Was it performing some kind of analysis to decide whether the battery was safe to recover (e.g. after deep discharge), or was it simply applying some initial charge ignoring the battery’s protection circuitry (and at what risk)?

Re: Ode to the AA Battery

#132

Post by accounting2026 »

bluGill wrote: post #128
bityard wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Were the old Rayovac batteries alkaline or zinc-carbon? Zinc-carbon batteries use a "dry cell" chemistry that will never leak, have a low self-discharge rate, and are very cheap to make and buy. You typically find them marketed as "heavy duty." The trade-off with those are that they have a lower energy capacity compared to alkaline. I use NiMH in almost everything but for things like TV remotes and clocks that sip po…

Alkaline. Rayovac spent a lot of money making alkaline that wouldn't leak (after several years of research one guy's wife asked "why don't you encase them in steel" - turns out that works, or at least that is how I heard the story). They never has the capacity of the more expensive competitors, but for my camping stuff I'll take that trade off. (all too often the last trip of the year I'm throwing everything in a box…

At our high school we each had to buy a TI-83 calculator kit, and it came with one of those Rayovac alkaline chargers.

I also had a Seitek Eco charger that could charge "normal" alkalines. But you had to be careful not to discharge them too deep. It seemed kind of pointless over rechargebles though the capacity of NiCD/NiMH was way lower back then (I remember when NiMH AA batteries at 700 mAh were considered really high!). And perhaps it some devices it was great they held 1.5 V.

Re: Ode to the AA Battery

#133

Post by accounting2026 »

jchw wrote: post #7
klooney wrote: post #2

> run at a nominal 1.2V instead of the 1.5V of alkaline batteries. I've suddenly figured out why so many toys don't work with rechargeable batteries

I believe I have zero Alkaline batteries left in my house and I'm relatively surprised that pretty much everything works fine. If anything, I suspect the only problem is that some devices have an inaccurate account of how dead the batteries are. But I use Eneloops on everything, even things surely not designed at all to run on them. (And I reckon you could probably make more devices work if you really wanted to; addi…

I have a weather station that takes two 1.2 V. The LCD screen is a bit dim compared to when used with fresh 1.5 V alkalines. Other than that, most things take the 1.2 V well. But they better do because alkalines reach 1.2 V with >50% capacity left.

Re: Ode to the AA Battery

#134

Post by BeetleB »

nickcw wrote: post #93

Eneloops are fantastic. I've been using them for 10 years. They have very low self discharge so you can keep them on the shelf for a year and they will still have 70% charge which is very different to most rechargeable batteries. They don't leak unlike alkaline batteries and you can run them to 0% charge without damaging them unlike Lion batteries. The terminal voltage is only 1.2v so there is the occasional thing th…

Eneloops were huge for use in DSLRs.

And they are overhyped.

Most of them are about 2000 mAh. Other NiMH batteries can have, say, 2700 mAh. So even though the latter have a higher discharge rate - after 6 months of storage the latter still has more juice.

The benefit with the 2700 mAh, of course, is if you're using when full, you can use it for much longer.

If they cost the same, I could see the hype. But most people are still better off with regular NiMH AA batteries.

Re: Ode to the AA Battery

#135

Post by BeetleB »

pdpi wrote: post #46
coldpie wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Series X controllers still work this way. Takes standard-ass AA batteries, including rechargeables; or you can buy a bespoke charge pack[1] which actually supports charging while in the controller. [1] https://www.xbox.com/en-US/accessories/batteries-chargers/pl...

And, if you use good quality 2500mAh rechargeable AAs, those controllers go forever between charges.

> those controllers go forever between charges.

In my experience - about a month. Less if you play more often.

Re: Ode to the AA Battery

#136

Post by BeetleB »

Lutzb wrote: post #8

The best thing about Eneloops do not seem to leak. I can just leave them in rarely used electronic devices without worrying. They might discharge, but so far this has never been a problem.

I've been using NiMH AA batteries for over 20 years. I've never had one leak. It's not unique to Eneloop.

Re: Ode to the AA Battery

#137

Post by jasona123 »

nickcw wrote: post #93

Eneloops are fantastic. I've been using them for 10 years. They have very low self discharge so you can keep them on the shelf for a year and they will still have 70% charge which is very different to most rechargeable batteries. They don't leak unlike alkaline batteries and you can run them to 0% charge without damaging them unlike Lion batteries. The terminal voltage is only 1.2v so there is the occasional thing th…

The whole "everything I own just has a built in Li-ion battery" thing came to mind when I ordered my first set of Eneloops ahead of last week's snowstorm in North America - most things I own have their own batteries with a charger (right down to this decorative squishy whale lamp), and I can count on two hands the things that use AAAs and one hand the things that use AAs. It's wild.

Re: Ode to the AA Battery

#138

Post by BeetleB »

dragontamer wrote: post #12
amelius wrote: post #4

Speaking of which, I really hate those chargers that force you to use two batteries instead of one. I get that it is cheaper to design it that way, but come on.

NiMH chemistry allows for safe overcharging though. If the chemistry allows for it, why not take advantage of it and have cheaper chargers? The downside is that "save overcharging" only works at very low charging rates. That's why the double-charger designs all have 10+ hour charge times (mine actually has a 20-hour charge time). But in practice? Its cheaper to buy 4 extra AA NiMH batteries to keep charged rather tha…

I think what he is referring to is this:

If one battery is 50%, and the other at 70%, and you put both in, one will end up at 80% and the other at 100%. When one is full, those cheap chargers stop charging the pair.

Re: Ode to the AA Battery

#139

Post by jasona123 »

jasomill wrote: post #60
alnwlsn wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking of which, I have yet to see a consumer battery charger that isn't incredibly cheap feeling. Even ones for charging different chemistries or that let you set current rates are a mess of low-quality molding and cryptic button presses.

I've never had a problem with the basic 4-cell chargers that Panasonic includes with their Eneloop starter kits, other than the mildly annoying fact that they cover more than a single plug on a power strip. Build quality seems fine, and I've been using them for decades without a single failure, so I've never seen any reason to even investigate alternatives.

Panasonic does have one that charges over USB (micro-USB input though) so you can use an old 5V Apple brick and only take up one spot. It also supports USB out via a full-size USB-A port. Picked one up since I liked the idea of being able to use AAs in a pinch for recharging.

Re: Ode to the AA Battery

#140

Post by quickthrowman »

bigstrat2003 wrote: post #129
bxparks wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great in theory. In practice, the Duracell alkaline battery will leak caustic fluids inside the remote control and destroy it, and you will have to mortgage your house to buy a replacement on eBay, if it's even available. (I pick on Duracell because they are the worst. They leak if you look at them wrong, when they are brand new, inside the original packaging, before their "expiration date". But all alkalines are bad…

I have never, in my 40 years of life, had an alkaline battery leak and destroy something. I'm aware that it can happen, but in practice it doesn't happen very often.

I have seen every kind of common alkaline battery size leak acid or have corrosion. 9V, AA, AAA, C, D. It helps that I used to fix broken things for a living, I guess.

Can’t recall if I’ve seen a CR2032 leak acid or corrode, but I think I have.

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