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How ICE knows who Minneapolis protesters are

nytimes.com

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Re: How ICE knows who Minneapolis protesters are

#131

Post by mothballed »

15155 wrote: post #130
mothballed wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok. Homicidal racist forces, disproportionately manned by minorities, who want to stomp on other minorities.

Imagine waiting in line for a decade, going through a grueling process, following the rules and immigrating legally, only to show up and see hordes of criminal invaders who thought they were exempt from the same.

Why do that. Just get popped out by an illegal on US soil. boom, you are a citizen, and you can join the border patrol and smugly declare "ha you didn't wait in line."

Re: How ICE knows who Minneapolis protesters are

#132

Post by 15155 »

mothballed wrote: post #131
15155 wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine waiting in line for a decade, going through a grueling process, following the rules and immigrating legally, only to show up and see hordes of criminal invaders who thought they were exempt from the same.

Why do that. Just get popped out by an illegal on US soil. boom, you are a citizen, and you can join the border patrol and smugly declare "ha you didn't wait in line."

Here's to hoping the Supreme Court can fix this loophole that almost no other developed nation in the entire world still allows!

Re: How ICE knows who Minneapolis protesters are

#133

Post by palmotea »

1718627440 wrote: post #122
palmotea wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The problem with these threads is everybody wants to complain about Trump, but nobody wants to talk about policies that actually help buffer against the far-right. Eg implementing robust safety nets and low inequality, to reduce status anxiety and grievance. How many of you software engineers want to sign up for European-style welfare states and pay for them with high taxes? It's basically tragedy of the commons...…

> If the technocrats say "99% of the time immigration is great for the economy" and the people say "we don't want it, less immigration, please," what do you do? Do less immigration where people feel it, invest into economic education of the general populace.

>> If the technocrats say "99% of the time immigration is great for the economy" and the people say "we don't want it, less immigration, please," what do you do?

> Do less immigration where people feel it, invest into economic education of the general populace.

There can be a lot of legitimate disagreement about what the economy should look like or what's "great" for it. It's not just "GDP number go up."

And isn't it undemocratic for a government to be "investing" into educating people to think about and prioritize issues in a certain way (e.g. according to certain economic ideologies, like a technocrat)? A democratic government is supposed to represent its people, not control them to make them "better" according to some official's opinion.

Re: How ICE knows who Minneapolis protesters are

#134

Post by mothballed »

palmotea wrote: post #133
1718627440 wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If the technocrats say "99% of the time immigration is great for the economy" and the people say "we don't want it, less immigration, please," what do you do? Do less immigration where people feel it, invest into economic education of the general populace.

>> If the technocrats say "99% of the time immigration is great for the economy" and the people say "we don't want it, less immigration, please," what do you do? > Do less immigration where people feel it, invest into economic education of the general populace. There can be a lot of legitimate disagreement about what the economy should look like or what's "great" for it. It's not just "GDP number go up." And isn't it…

You've pretty much nailed why almost all the highest immigration nations are monarchies. You basically need a ruler to tell the populace they are his bitch and they'll get the free market and open work visa immigration (UAE, Qatar, Kuwait, Bahrain) whether they like it or not.

It does work and made those countries much richer but basically it won't easily happen under democracies with paths to citizenship for immigrants and strong welfare. For both rational and irrational reasons.

Re: How ICE knows who Minneapolis protesters are

#135

Post by popalchemist »

cmxch wrote: post #104
Herring wrote: post #79

The problem with these threads is everybody wants to complain about Trump, but nobody wants to talk about policies that actually help buffer against the far-right. Eg implementing robust safety nets and low inequality, to reduce status anxiety and grievance. How many of you software engineers want to sign up for European-style welfare states and pay for them with high taxes? It's basically tragedy of the commons. htt…

If you want to bring in something from the overall European region, Switzerland would be a more appropriate model. Instead of trying to implement constitutionally impossible rules and mandates, work with a model that is more realistic to US policies and expectations.

Can you give specific examples of what you mean by that?

Re: How ICE knows who Minneapolis protesters are

#136

Post by computerthings »

15155 wrote: post #115
snowwrestler wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with flying Mexican flags. Americans fly flags of other countries all the time. There are English flags all over a nearby pub in my area. Heck, there is an entire national holiday for celebrating the Irish—a holiday for which the Defense Department made an exception to its policy of avoiding cultural observances. The overreach by the current administration is what is driving the volu…

[flagged]

[dead]

Re: How ICE knows who Minneapolis protesters are

#137

Post by kreetx »

mindslight wrote: post #125
kreetx wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When driving towards a law enforcement officer, it is you assaulting them, not the other way around. Fleeing is against the law as well. Why did the woman attempt this? Ot, if it was so dangerous, what was she doing there?

"As I said, you're starting at a point where the ICE agent had already set up his pretext to execute her." You keep coming back to this point in time, to the exclusion of everything that led up to it. Why?

Because the alledged pretext assumes being able to predict the future.

Re: How ICE knows who Minneapolis protesters are

#138

Post by insane_dreamer »

Amezarak wrote: post #49
dyauspitr wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How often did ICE violate the 4th Amendment under Obama? How many court orders did they ignore? How many people were deported without due process?

Obama actually pioneered non-judicial deportations. Under his administration, 75% of removals took place without the established immigration hearing process. Many (most?) ICE deportations taking place today are after "due process" "judicial" hearings, that is, a final order of removal being issued by an immigration "judge." This is generally ignored by news reporting. https://www.aclu.org/news/immigrants-rights/speed…

almost no one is getting due process today

and yes, the way the system evolved is a problem, but as that article pointed out this change started in the mid-90s. Obama actually deported half the number of people as under Clinton and Bush, see Table 1[0]

Also most of the people Obama deported were at/near the border as he prioritized that over interior arrests. You can see the big change in Figure 1[0]

Turning people around at/near the border is a completely different than arresting people who have been in the US for years, even decades.

[0] https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/obama-record-deporta...

So the "whataboutism" is a complete red herring, and that's without even getting into fixed quotas, no guardrails or accountability for ICE agents, no consequences for murder, unlimited surveillance budget, hiring unqualified agents and putting guns in their hands, and I could go on and on.

Re: How ICE knows who Minneapolis protesters are

#139

Post by palmotea »

mothballed wrote: post #134
palmotea wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> If the technocrats say "99% of the time immigration is great for the economy" and the people say "we don't want it, less immigration, please," what do you do? > Do less immigration where people feel it, invest into economic education of the general populace. There can be a lot of legitimate disagreement about what the economy should look like or what's "great" for it. It's not just "GDP number go up." And isn't it…

You've pretty much nailed why almost all the highest immigration nations are monarchies. You basically need a ruler to tell the populace they are his bitch and they'll get the free market and open work visa immigration (UAE, Qatar, Kuwait, Bahrain) whether they like it or not. It does work and made those countries much richer but basically it won't easily happen under democracies with paths to citizenship for immigra…

> You've pretty much nailed why almost all the highest immigration nations are monarchies. You basically need a ruler to tell the populace they are his bitch and they'll get the free market and open work visa immigration (UAE, Qatar, Kuwait, Bahrain) whether they like it or not.

> It does work and made those countries much richer

What, exactly, do you mean by "countries" and "richer"? The monarch is wealthier and more powerful? Some aggregate GDP number went up? More bank deposits?

There are a lot of ways to make the few gain at the expense of the many, and depending on the statistics you look at, that may look like the country becoming richer. However, those kinds of scenarios are one of the things democracy is supposed to prevent.

Re: How ICE knows who Minneapolis protesters are

#140

Post by 1718627440 »

palmotea wrote: post #133
1718627440 wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If the technocrats say "99% of the time immigration is great for the economy" and the people say "we don't want it, less immigration, please," what do you do? Do less immigration where people feel it, invest into economic education of the general populace.

>> If the technocrats say "99% of the time immigration is great for the economy" and the people say "we don't want it, less immigration, please," what do you do? > Do less immigration where people feel it, invest into economic education of the general populace. There can be a lot of legitimate disagreement about what the economy should look like or what's "great" for it. It's not just "GDP number go up." And isn't it…

I was more thinking of raising the school budget and increasing the economic part of the curriculum, but for adults I think there is a difference between honest information and manipulative advertisements.
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