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Drug trio found to block tumour resistance in pancreatic cancer in mouse models

drugtargetreview.com

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Re: Drug trio found to block tumour resistance in pancreatic cancer in mouse models

#131

Post by betty_staples »

comicjk wrote: post #89
ngriffiths wrote: post #4

IN MICE. (To be fair, also IN SOME OTHER BETTER MICE). https://jamesheathers.medium.com/in-mice-explained-77b61b598... (mostly a joke, but I'd be in favor of adding context to the HN headline if possible)

This context is very important. "Little by little, over-inflated results and breathless breakthroughs betray trust. They throwing dimes in a wishing well which people rapidly start to expect will never pay compound interest." "Then, when one of those people is elected to parliament, or Congress, and start to cut the budget for the National Science Foundation, or declares that All Research Should Be In The National In…

[dead]

Re: Drug trio found to block tumour resistance in pancreatic cancer in mouse models

#132

Post by gverrilla »

Liquix wrote: post #74
petcat wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah this is more like a Pascalian Gamble [1]. If you try nothing, then you are assured to die as God wanted. If you try something , then you might live, but then God hates you. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal%27s_wager

It is like Pascal's Wager but has nothing to do with "what God wanted" or "God hating you"... It's more "if it doesn't work the outcome is the same anyway" (eternal oblivion in Pascal's case, certain death in this case), therefore why not give it a shot in case it does work.

Warning to anyone reading this: Pascal was NOT a self-help writer.

Re: Drug trio found to block tumour resistance in pancreatic cancer in mouse models

#133

Post by Induane »

DennisP wrote: post #120
kulahan wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a lot of money to be made selling snake oil to the desperate, so we definitely want regulation…

So don't let people sell the drugs at a profit, at early stages.

Ding ding ding this is the way. Sell at cost. Real cost, like cost of making. NOT a cost that includes R&S amortized across the batch.

Re: Drug trio found to block tumour resistance in pancreatic cancer in mouse models

#134

Post by tansey »

A_D_E_P_T wrote: post #47

> Clinical implications: While more research will be needed before trials in humans can begin Why? Seriously, think about it. Most people with pancreatic cancer have nothing to lose and many of them have just weeks or months to live. Daraxonrasib, Afatinib, and SD36 are molecules that can already be purchased in bulk, and what's the worst that can happen? Our society's morbid, irrational fear of quack medicine causes…

Somebody has to pay for the trial. Drugs are expensive and the amount needed to dose a single person is orders of magnitude more than mice. So who funds the study?

If it's the government or philanthropic fund, you have to put in a grant and show that it's competitive in terms of preliminary results etc.

If it's the drug companies, you have to deal with lots of complicated things with combination therapies. Drug companies don't like their drug paired with other drugs that aren't in their portfolio. They also need to see a way to make a profit on it, which means they need to evaluate whether this is the most likely successful trial, assess bang for buck etc.

If you want to go compassionate use, then you need to get the pharma to donate the drugs or insurance to cover it. This is spain, so I guess insurance is just the government since they have universal healthcare. I have no idea how that works but I am guessing it doesn't move fast.

Re: Drug trio found to block tumour resistance in pancreatic cancer in mouse models

#135

Post by TaupeRanger »

Tade0 wrote: post #57

Recently YouTube again started recommending to me channels of people who died of cancer. I looked at a clip of a man just a few years my senior where he was describing the symptoms that in his view should have made him go see a doctor earlier, because maybe then his pancreatic cancer wouldn't have been fatal. Truth be told they wouldn't raise any red flags if I had them. Only thing that I'm doing differently is havin…

And they shouldn’t raise red flags. 99.9% of the symptoms any individual experiences in their life are not life threatening. If you got scans and interventions at every symptom, you’d end up in debt and with iatrogenic harms. Until we can get more accurate data from our bodies more easily, this is the reality. The good news: there’s so much room for innovation and progress in medicine.

Re: Drug trio found to block tumour resistance in pancreatic cancer in mouse models

#136

Post by rdiddly »

wormius wrote: post #70

Am I misunderstanding the headline? Is the word "block" now meaning "enhance" instead of "stop"? I would think based on the text of the article that it enhances resistance. Or are tumors necessary to stop cancer growth (even though it is cancer growth?)

It's an awkward headline that, when read a certain way, says the opposite of what it means.

Re: Drug trio found to block tumour resistance in pancreatic cancer in mouse models

#138

Post by aorloff »

tansey wrote: post #134
A_D_E_P_T wrote: post #47

> Clinical implications: While more research will be needed before trials in humans can begin Why? Seriously, think about it. Most people with pancreatic cancer have nothing to lose and many of them have just weeks or months to live. Daraxonrasib, Afatinib, and SD36 are molecules that can already be purchased in bulk, and what's the worst that can happen? Our society's morbid, irrational fear of quack medicine causes…

Somebody has to pay for the trial. Drugs are expensive and the amount needed to dose a single person is orders of magnitude more than mice. So who funds the study? If it's the government or philanthropic fund, you have to put in a grant and show that it's competitive in terms of preliminary results etc. If it's the drug companies, you have to deal with lots of complicated things with combination therapies. Drug compa…

> So who funds the study?

The End Users !!!! This is why medicine is too important to leave to drug companies, governments, or philanthropic funds.

What we need is an open source medical trial system with some bona fides

Re: Drug trio found to block tumour resistance in pancreatic cancer in mouse models

#139

Post by vibrio »

A_D_E_P_T wrote: post #47

> Clinical implications: While more research will be needed before trials in humans can begin Why? Seriously, think about it. Most people with pancreatic cancer have nothing to lose and many of them have just weeks or months to live. Daraxonrasib, Afatinib, and SD36 are molecules that can already be purchased in bulk, and what's the worst that can happen? Our society's morbid, irrational fear of quack medicine causes…

Knowing whether drugs work isn’t trivial. Patients are typically very heterogeneous in their responses to drugs. For example, pembrolizumab (the most successful cancer drug ever) typically only works in, say 30% of patients depending of the cancer type. Just throwing therapeutic ideas out there and letting physicians sort out how to use them and in which patients, isn’t a panacea. Looking at clinical data can be like star gazing even in planned studies. Structured, statistically powered studies, and costly rigorous assays on biomarkers and correlative studies are essential for understanding how and in what patients drugs are working. I’m all for expanding access to drugs, and there is abundant waste and greed in big Pharma and venture, but there are also people doing hard expensive science, medicine and manufacturing. Im not sure I have the answer. A “yelp for medicine” won’t improve immediate outcomes, nor longer term understanding and progress. A great and excruciating read about the tension there is a real-time blog (the story’s story) that was written by Jake Seliger unt he passed in 2023.

Re: Drug trio found to block tumour resistance in pancreatic cancer in mouse models

#140

Post by kulahan »

nopassrecover wrote: post #126
kulahan wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You would destroy any inheritance your family might get, or which could be donated to a cause saving a dozen lives, over a 5% chance you don’t die from cancer specifically, which might make you feel unbearably bad until you DO die? Like much worse than you already feel? That’s insanely irrational. Edit: and all of this is before the psychological implications of knowing your time is almost up. People would rather hav…

Sorry what’s the inheritance logic here? Are you talking about life insurance or something? Otherwise, and again presuming the cure doesn’t work which seems absent from your assessment as a possibility, how would it affect someone’s inheritance? My general understanding is life insurance almost never actually pays out, and if it does it’s after a long fight and for less than you signed up for, and in any case should…

Term life insurance really isn't expensive, and it's meant to take care of those you leave behind in an unfortunate event. Pay off some big bills so your partner isn't grieving AND homeless. Most of the people on this site are pretty well-off, and can/should afford an expense like this.

If you've got a 95% chance of death, take the pain pills and enjoy your final days. Don't bankrupt yourself and spend more time miserable, dying anyways.

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