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ICE and Palantir: US agents using health data to hunt illegal immigrants

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Re: ICE and Palantir: US agents using health data to hunt illegal immigrants

#131

Post by gordonhart »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #121
self_awareness wrote: post #105

As a non-American, I'm just wondering, why won't you help these people get legal citizenship status since it's clear as day most people want them in? Why won't you protest against current citizenship rules, since it's clear you want them to be changed? edit: I see it's just a simple "f** ice" and "you need to go" case. I'll show myself out

> since it's clear as day most people want them in? Not sure how you concluded this. Particularly for unskilled labour.

It’s an easy conclusion to come to if your only view of the US comes from moderated online spaces and the news media.

Re: ICE and Palantir: US agents using health data to hunt illegal immigrants

#132

Post by ardme »

self_awareness wrote: post #105

As a non-American, I'm just wondering, why won't you help these people get legal citizenship status since it's clear as day most people want them in? Why won't you protest against current citizenship rules, since it's clear you want them to be changed? edit: I see it's just a simple "f** ice" and "you need to go" case. I'll show myself out

It’s not just a simple case it’s an extremely contentious issue the country is deeply divided on based on location and political leanings.

Re: ICE and Palantir: US agents using health data to hunt illegal immigrants

#133

Post by randomNumber7 »

api wrote: post #99
petterroea wrote: post #6

Private surveillance is so much more scary than regular government surveillance because they have every incentive to invent new ways of surveilling you that they then try to sell to governments, or private actors who want to influence the world. It's like classic government surveillance but every company you interacted with and every app you use may at some point turn on you and use your data against you, just becaus…

Starting way back in the early 2000s I was predicting all this and was consistently called nuts and paranoid. In retrospect what has actually happened with mass surveillance has been far worse than what the most unhinged conspiracy nut on shortwave radio or some crazy end times Geocities web site was predicting back then. The predictions of the conspiracy nuts were conservative. The big thing everyone got wrong was t…

Mostly agree, but I think people didn't put up resistance (at least partly) because a certain amount of wealth is needed to life freely.

If you worry about paying rent or buying food you likely don't care if some abstract entity knows to what kind of videos you jerk off.

Re: ICE and Palantir: US agents using health data to hunt illegal immigrants

#134

Post by mmcwilliams »

rudhdb773b wrote: post #74
torben-friis wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would non state actors be any less scary? Large companies colluding to reject potential hires due to surveilled ideology, sexual preferences of people in the closet filtered to scammers, hate groups learning about the family members of activists, insurance rejecting customers based on illegally obtained data… the list of risks is giant.

> Why would non state actors be any less scary? Non-state actors can't easily use violence to throw me in jail.

You're under the belief that private actors can't influence state actors to use violence on their behalf, completely isolating them from responsibility? If a private business calls the police on a suspected trespasser and the police shoot that person, is the business held liable? Ever? Seems like they have the better end of the bargain than the state.

Re: ICE and Palantir: US agents using health data to hunt illegal immigrants

#135

Post by Larrikin »

rudhdb773b wrote: post #74
torben-friis wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would non state actors be any less scary? Large companies colluding to reject potential hires due to surveilled ideology, sexual preferences of people in the closet filtered to scammers, hate groups learning about the family members of activists, insurance rejecting customers based on illegally obtained data… the list of risks is giant.

> Why would non state actors be any less scary? Non-state actors can't easily use violence to throw me in jail.

TikTok is blocking upload of ICE videos and Facebook is blocking posts with information about the ICE agents. Amazon just paid millions of dollars to put out a movie nobody wants about Donalds wife. Every major tech company paid millions of dollars for Donalds library at the beginning of all this for "the library"

The surveillance non state actors are already doing anything this administration wants.

Re: ICE and Palantir: US agents using health data to hunt illegal immigrants

#136

Post by rudhdb773b »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #96
rudhdb773b wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know why this is down voted. It's a very valid point. In countries where the police and government officials can be bought for pocket change by the middle class, the masses have relatively more power vs the elite who control the central government.

It’s a stupid point that ignores how corruption actually works, particularly when someone thinks being able to bribe the local police means an ordinary person in Venezuela has more power than an average American.

It's not. I'm not familiar with Venezuela, but here in SE Asia if I want to open a small business say a bar along the beach, I just pay off the local police with a small cut of my profits. Where I grew up in the US, it would either be impossible or takes years and millions of dollars to get all the approvals.

That's a real-world difference that gives the middle class more freedom to start a business that is really only feasible for the wealthy in the US.

Re: ICE and Palantir: US agents using health data to hunt illegal immigrants

#138

Post by api »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #124
api wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm referring to mobile phones, software that constantly spies on you, location tracking, and mass data fusion without any regard for legal limitations or privacy. Each individual data point seems normal or innocuous, but when you tie them all together and then leverage the tech panopticon you have an insane amount of detail on every person. There are no meaningful legal safeguards on how this data is used, especiall…

> I'm referring to mobile phones, software that constantly spies on you, location tracking, and mass data fusion without any regard for legal limitations or privacy None of that is relevant to the article. It’s about HHS data being queried to give ICE probable addresses. What you’re doing is indistinguishable from whataboutism. I don’t think that’s your intent. But we have an actual abuse of public data at hand here.…

I don't think the two topics are separable. This is a specific case of the general trend.

Re: ICE and Palantir: US agents using health data to hunt illegal immigrants

#139

Post by ahzhzvH »

elric wrote: post #102
petterroea wrote: post #6

Private surveillance is so much more scary than regular government surveillance because they have every incentive to invent new ways of surveilling you that they then try to sell to governments, or private actors who want to influence the world. It's like classic government surveillance but every company you interacted with and every app you use may at some point turn on you and use your data against you, just becaus…

> We are really seeing the fears of data collection from the 2000s and 2010s come to fruition as privatized surveillance now. Cambridge analytica should have been the warning shot but it wasn't enough. I remember protesting against data retention laws in the early 2000s. People thought we were nuts for using historical examples about the Nazis abusing all kinds of records to hunt down Jews. History was never going to…

> Nazis abusing all kinds of records to hunt down Jews. History was never going to repeat itself that way

Kinda ironic but I think you’ve got the current situation a little backwards. Karp (who is Jewish) has boasted about Palantir being used to hunt down the “far right”: https://www.theregister.com/2024/02/28/palantir_boss_fii_spe...

I think it’s very important to focus on how data collection of this nature is bad, not that “because Nazis did it” it’s bad. The latter is exactly what Karp wants, and he can turn around and say he’s actually preventing Nazis. Similar to how the Holocaust narrative is used to justify the Palestinian genocide.

Re: ICE and Palantir: US agents using health data to hunt illegal immigrants

#140

Post by ClarityJones »

SilverBirch wrote: post #45
tomaytotomato wrote: post #27

How are Palantir so effective (as this article is alluding)? From a cynical British perspective, when I think of government departments and civil servants. I think inefficiency, data siloing, politics and lack of communication between departments and also internally not communicating between teams. Not withstanding a lack of cooperating and willingness to change. Did Palantir have a political mandate, or can they jus…

Are they effective? Do you have data on the number of people they've correctly identified vs false-positives. In fact, do you have any evidence they're even trying to limit false positives? The reason they are able to very efficiently send a dozen ICE agents to a random persons home to hold them at gun point until they can prove their immigration status is because the goal is to send ICE agents around holding people…

If I understand correctly, you're saying that in a majority of cases (or something approaching that) the targets of these raids are not subject to lawful deportation?

I would be curious to have data / information showing that.

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