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ASML staffing changes could result in a net reduction of around 1700 positions

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Re: ASML staffing changes could result in a net reduction of around 1700 positions

#131

Post by devsda »

PunchyHamster wrote: post #90
ArtTimeInvestor wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never seen a company that ... You have not seen Alphabet, Apple, Microsoft? Where are you looking? They all did tens of billions of share buybacks every year for many years now. Example: Alphabet has started share buybacks in 2015 and increased those every year. $70B in 2025 alone. And they are firing on all cylinders product-wise.

What products ? They lost battle for office software, they can't even exist in chat space, despise trying to make chat that sticks for 2 decades now, they squandered on video chat space and office space too. IF Alphabet was actually efficient they should own office space, but 365 ate their office productivity and even the utter turd that is MS teams is beating them out on chat. Even their search gets worse and only p…

I think they sort of failed upwards in chat space with their RCS push.

Re: ASML staffing changes could result in a net reduction of around 1700 positions

#132

Post by disgruntledphd2 »

petters wrote: post #42
noosphr wrote: post #7

> ASML also announced a new share buyback programme of up to €12 billion, to be executed by 31 December 2028. Oh boy. This fills me with dread. I've never seen a company that starts doing buybacks not become a financialized hollow shell within a decade. Being an irreplaceable monopoly on the commanding heights of the digital economy makes this even worse.

This makes no sense. Buybacks and dividends are how companies give money to investors

> This makes no sense. Buybacks and dividends are how companies give money to investors

Dividends are totally fine (from my perspective), while. buybacks are problematic from a place where executives are bonused on share price and earnings per share, both of which can be manipulated by buybacks.

More philosophically, I think that dividends are better for society as they allow investors to realise a stream of value from well run companies rather than needing to sell their share to acquire this value.

This is obviously just my opinion though, I don't know if it matches to what the OP cares about.

Re: ASML staffing changes could result in a net reduction of around 1700 positions

#133

Post by flyinglizard »

zwaps wrote: post #114
moffkalast wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As soon as you let some Germans into your company they will turn the bureaucracy up to 12 if allowed to, tale as old as time. It's a national culture more or less.

While you are not wrong, many of the cases I observed had managers from all over the world. I think it's just a symptom. As a manager, you contribute nothing by yourself. You are useful if you have a useful team (ICs) with a good project. To have that, you need to defend yourself against other managers who will take this from you. If you then also want to get prompted, your task is also to vacuum in all sorts of soft…

Having ICs with no organization, synchronization or shared vision creates chaos, toxicity and a lot of technical debt. You can easily create negative value. ICs need direction to be successful, and well managed people are much happier in my experience than non-managed people.

Re: ASML staffing changes could result in a net reduction of around 1700 positions

#134

Post by joe_mamba »

yomismoaqui wrote: post #127
joe_mamba wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for sharing. You know what's ironic about Qimonda? China bought their IP after they went under, and used it to build two domestic NAND and DRAM manufacturers that are set to become giants. Funny how China has the vision to use, finance and monetize where western governments keep failing. That's what hurts the most to see. EU says they want a strong domestic electronics industry, but with the exception of ASML,…

Say what you want about China's monoparty system, but it enables planning that spans decades. Our 4 years terms is short slighted by design.

I don't think this case has much to do with the mono party system but with the state taking interest to support a local industry at a loss but for future security.

Like for example the French government massively supported its aerospace and nuclear industry, and German government gave massive support to its legacy auto industry and they're not a mono party totalitarian system.

So it can be done even in democracies, but you need visionary leaders to spend money wisely on future industry bets and not just on buying votes from pensioners.

The big issue EU now has compared to the past when it kickstarted its nuclear and aerospace industry, is the massive burden of the welfare state that leaves little money for investments into other ventures, and boomers who are the largest beneficiaries of that welfare state, also account for the majority of the voter base, so the major EU economies France and Germany are stuck in a quagmire where the party who wins the elections is the one who goes more into debt for the welfare state.

Re: ASML staffing changes could result in a net reduction of around 1700 positions

#135

Post by qwertytyyuu »

anonymous908213 wrote: post #89
ArtTimeInvestor wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never seen a company that ... You have not seen Alphabet, Apple, Microsoft? Where are you looking? They all did tens of billions of share buybacks every year for many years now. Example: Alphabet has started share buybacks in 2015 and increased those every year. $70B in 2025 alone. And they are firing on all cylinders product-wise.

Has anyone in the last 10 years praised Google for anything, ever? They've been engaged in enshittification the entire time. Search is getting worse, Youtube is getting worse, Android is getting worse, Chrome is getting worse. They are indeed a hollow shell of the company that originally established themselves, but now that they have such a wide-ranging monopoly they can freely debase the value of their products to e…

Gemini maybe? (and before that the alpha fold and alpha go), they do have things they are good at

Re: ASML staffing changes could result in a net reduction of around 1700 positions

#136

Post by rocqua »

noosphr wrote: post #7

> ASML also announced a new share buyback programme of up to €12 billion, to be executed by 31 December 2028. Oh boy. This fills me with dread. I've never seen a company that starts doing buybacks not become a financialized hollow shell within a decade. Being an irreplaceable monopoly on the commanding heights of the digital economy makes this even worse.

A buyback is almost the same as a dividend, with minor differences around tax and effects on derivative pricing.

And ASML has been paying out a dividend for a long time.

Re: ASML staffing changes could result in a net reduction of around 1700 positions

#137

Post by [deleted] »

PunchyHamster wrote: post #90
ArtTimeInvestor wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never seen a company that ... You have not seen Alphabet, Apple, Microsoft? Where are you looking? They all did tens of billions of share buybacks every year for many years now. Example: Alphabet has started share buybacks in 2015 and increased those every year. $70B in 2025 alone. And they are firing on all cylinders product-wise.

What products ? They lost battle for office software, they can't even exist in chat space, despise trying to make chat that sticks for 2 decades now, they squandered on video chat space and office space too. IF Alphabet was actually efficient they should own office space, but 365 ate their office productivity and even the utter turd that is MS teams is beating them out on chat. Even their search gets worse and only p…

[deleted]

Re: ASML staffing changes could result in a net reduction of around 1700 positions

#138

Post by consp »

zwaps wrote: post #73
skrebbel wrote: post #13

The press release ( https://www.asml.com/en/news/press-releases/2026/strengtheni... ) seems remarkably to the point, for CEO press release standards. I'm impressed by their ambition to fire 1700 managers (!) That's a lot of managers! I interviewed with ASML a decade and a half ago and while there was plenty to complain about (eg their tens of millions of lines of absolutely unmaintainable C code), I didn't feel at th…

Many large corporations in Europe, especially in sectors of prior consistent growth and profit, are chock full of too many managers. These are people who primarily create work for themselves and each other. I have sat in meetings about meetings for actions that, ultimately, have zero impact, in teams where managers involve outnumber people who actually execute anything three to one. It's staggering. I believe the bes…

Pretty much due to there being no path forward with h respect to earnings if you are "just an engineer". There are some niches but mostly to make money you have to be management. Resulting in a massive Peter-principle issue and bloated layers of middle management to handle the extra managers. For what i know this is solidly entrenched into Dutch working culture.

Re: ASML staffing changes could result in a net reduction of around 1700 positions

#139

Post by portly »

retired wrote: post #118
joe_mamba wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's pretty generous, even for EU standards. In Austria for example, unconditional unemployment is 60% of your income and only lasting for a dozen or so weeks, after which you are forced to accept any job offer thrown at you or risk having your unemployment taken away.

Unemployment benefits is something you build up during your career, not just your current employer. For each year in employment you get one month of unemployment. The limit is 24 months. And with the current job market, someone with ASML on their resume probably isn't on the bench for more than six months.

The current job market for managers does not look great since Elon let that sink in.

Re: ASML staffing changes could result in a net reduction of around 1700 positions

#140

Post by flyinglizard »

uxcolumbo wrote: post #112
skrebbel wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not convinced ASML leadership is very focused on what's going on at Meta. The organizations are incomparable, except if you zoom out so far that all you see is "big" and "tech" (plus I'd wager that the average ASML'er would chuckle at calling Meta a technology company at all).

ASML is a net positive for the world. Scientists pushing technology forward. Read about how they achieved EUV lithography, what an amazing feat. META is a net negative for the world. Its leadership prioritizes profit over user safety (e.g. not protecting children), it allowed democracies to be undermined by boosting misinformation and social division.

Whatsapp is a strong net positive. This is the world’s communication network (I’m counting US out because it is counting itself out)
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