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Kimi Released Kimi K2.5, Open-Source Visual SOTA-Agentic Model

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Re: Kimi Released Kimi K2.5, Open-Source Visual SOTA-Agentic Model

#131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

32B active is nothing special, there's local setups that will easily support that. 1T total parameters ultimately requires keeping the bulk of them on SSD. This need not be an issue if there's enough locality in expert choice for any given workload; the "hot" experts will simply be cached in available spare RAM.

When I've measured this myself, I've never seen a medium-to-long task horizon that would have expert locality such that you wouldn't be hitting the SSD constantly to swap layers (not to say it doesn't exist, just that in the literature and in my own empirics, it doesn't seem to be observed in a way you could rely on it for cache performance). Over any task that has enough prefill input diversity and a decode phase th…

> hitting the SSD constantly to swap layers

Thing is, people in the local llm community are already doing that to run the largest MoE models, using mmap such that spare-RAM-as-cache is managed automatically by the OS. It's a drag on performance to be sure but still somewhat usable, if you're willing to wait for results. And it unlocks these larger models on what's effectively semi-pro if not true consumer hardware. On the enterprise side, high bandwidth NAND Flash is just around the corner and perfectly suited for storing these large read-only model parameters (no wear and tear issues with the NAND storage) while preserving RAM-like throughput.

Re: Kimi Released Kimi K2.5, Open-Source Visual SOTA-Agentic Model

#132
post #34

The "Deepseek moment" is just one year ago today! Coincidence or not, let's just marvel for a second over this amount of magic/technology that's being given away for free... and how liberating and different this is than OpenAI and others that were closed to "protect us all".

I am convinced that was mostly just marketing. No one uses deepseek as far as I can tell. People are not running it locally. People choose GPT/Gemini/Claude/Grok if you are giving your data away anyway.

My biggest source of my conspiracy is that I made a reddit thread asking a question: "Why all the deepseek hype" or something like that. And to this day, I get odd, 'pro deepseek' comments from accounts only used every few months. Its not like this was some highly upvoted topic that is in the 'Top'.

I'd put that deepseek marketing on-par with an Apple marketing campaign.

Re: Kimi Released Kimi K2.5, Open-Source Visual SOTA-Agentic Model

#133
post #80
post #34

The "Deepseek moment" is just one year ago today! Coincidence or not, let's just marvel for a second over this amount of magic/technology that's being given away for free... and how liberating and different this is than OpenAI and others that were closed to "protect us all".

What amazes me is why would someone spend millions to train this model and give it away for free. What is the business here?

It's another state project funded at the discretion of the party.

If you look at past state projects, profitability wasn't really considered much. They are notorious for a "Money hose until a diamond is found in the mountains of waste"

Re: Kimi Released Kimi K2.5, Open-Source Visual SOTA-Agentic Model

#134

A realistic setup for this would be a 16× H100 80GB with NVLink. That comfortably handles the active 32B experts plus KV cache without extreme quantization. Cost-wise we are looking at roughly $500k–$700k upfront or $40–60/hr on-demand, which makes it clear this model is aimed at serious infra teams, not casual single-GPU deployments. I’m curious how API providers will price tokens on top of that hardware reality.

Generally speaking, 8xH200s will be a lot cheaper than 16xH100s, and faster too. But both should technically work.

You can do it and may be ok for single user with idle waiting times, but performance/throughput will be roughly halved (closer to 2/3) and free context will be more limited with 8xH200 vs 16xH100 (assuming decent interconnect). Depending a bit on usecase and workload 16xH100 (or 16xB200) may be a better config for cost optimization. Often there is a huge economy of scale with such large mixture of expert models so that it would even be cheaper to use 96 GPU instead of just 8 or 16. The reasons are complicatet and involve better prefill cache, less memory transfer per node.

Re: Kimi Released Kimi K2.5, Open-Source Visual SOTA-Agentic Model

#135

Have you all noted that the latest releases (Qwen3 max thinking, now Kimi k2.5) from Chinese companies are benching against Claude opus now and not Sonnet? They are truly catching up, almost at the same pace?

They distill the major western models, so anytime a new SOTA model drops, you can expect the Chinese labs to update their models within a few months.

Re: Kimi Released Kimi K2.5, Open-Source Visual SOTA-Agentic Model

#136
post #50
post #16

Curious what would be the most minimal reasonable hardware one would need to deploy this locally?

Models of this size can usually be run using MLX on a pair of 512GB Mac Studio M3 Ultras, which are about $10,000 each so $20,000 for the pair.

You might want to clarify that this is more of a "Look it technically works"

Not a "I actually use this"

The difference between waiting 20 minutes to answer the prompt '1+1='

and actually using it for something useful is massive here. I wonder where this idea of running AI on CPU comes from. Was it Apple astroturfing? Was it Apple fanboys? I don't see people wasting time on non-Apple CPUs. (Although, I did do this for a 7B model)

Re: Kimi Released Kimi K2.5, Open-Source Visual SOTA-Agentic Model

#137
post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The model absolutely can be run at home. There even is a big community around running large models locally: https://www.reddit.com/r/LocalLLaMA/ The cheapest way is to stream it from a fast SSD, but it will be quite slow (one token every few seconds). The next step up is an old server with lots of RAM and many memory channels with maybe a GPU thrown in for faster prompt processing (low two digits tokens/second). At t…

> The model absolutely can be run at home. There even is a big community around running large models locally IMO 1tln parameters and 32bln active seems like a different scale to what most are talking about when they say localLLMs IMO. Totally agree there will be people messing with this, but the real value in localLLMs is that you can actually use them and get value from them with standard consumer hardware. I don't…

Local LLMs are just LLMs people run locally. It's not a definition of size, feature set, or what's most popular. What the "real" value is for local LLMs will depend on each person you ask. The person who runs small local LLMs will tell you the real value is in small models, the person who runs large local LLMs will tell you it's large ones, those who use cloud will say the value is in shared compute, and those who don't like AI will say there is no value in any.

LLMs which the weights aren't available are an example of when it's not local LLMs, not when the model happens to be large.

Re: Kimi Released Kimi K2.5, Open-Source Visual SOTA-Agentic Model

#138

Have you all noted that the latest releases (Qwen3 max thinking, now Kimi k2.5) from Chinese companies are benching against Claude opus now and not Sonnet? They are truly catching up, almost at the same pace?

They distill the major western models, so anytime a new SOTA model drops, you can expect the Chinese labs to update their models within a few months.

This is just a conspiracy theory/urban legend. How do you "distill" a proprietary model with no access to the original weights? Just doing the equivalent of training on chat/API logs has terrible effectiveness (you're trying to drink from a giant firehose through a tiny straw) and gives you no underlying improvements.

Re: Kimi Released Kimi K2.5, Open-Source Visual SOTA-Agentic Model

#139
post #34

The "Deepseek moment" is just one year ago today! Coincidence or not, let's just marvel for a second over this amount of magic/technology that's being given away for free... and how liberating and different this is than OpenAI and others that were closed to "protect us all".

I am convinced that was mostly just marketing. No one uses deepseek as far as I can tell. People are not running it locally. People choose GPT/Gemini/Claude/Grok if you are giving your data away anyway. My biggest source of my conspiracy is that I made a reddit thread asking a question: "Why all the deepseek hype" or something like that. And to this day, I get odd, 'pro deepseek' comments from accounts only used ever…

Except that, In OpenRouter, Deepseek always maintain in Top 10 Ranking. Although I did not use it personally, i believe that their main advantage over other model is price/performance.

Re: Kimi Released Kimi K2.5, Open-Source Visual SOTA-Agentic Model

#140
post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The model absolutely can be run at home. There even is a big community around running large models locally: https://www.reddit.com/r/LocalLLaMA/ The cheapest way is to stream it from a fast SSD, but it will be quite slow (one token every few seconds). The next step up is an old server with lots of RAM and many memory channels with maybe a GPU thrown in for faster prompt processing (low two digits tokens/second). At t…

> The model absolutely can be run at home. There even is a big community around running large models locally IMO 1tln parameters and 32bln active seems like a different scale to what most are talking about when they say localLLMs IMO. Totally agree there will be people messing with this, but the real value in localLLMs is that you can actually use them and get value from them with standard consumer hardware. I don't…

do you guys understand that different experts are loaded PER TOKEN?
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