Live data from Hacker News

I let ChatGPT analyze a decade of my Apple Watch data, then I called my doctor

msn.com

131–140 of 240 posts

Re: I let ChatGPT analyze a decade of my Apple Watch data, then I called my doctor

#131
post #71

Health metrics are absolutely tarnished by a lack of proper context. Unsurprisingly, it turns out that you can't reliably take a concept as broad as health and reduce it to a number. We see the same arguments over and over with body fat percentages, vo2 max estimates, BMI, lactate thresholds, resting heart rate, HRV, and more. These are all useful metrics, but it's important to consider them in the proper context tha…

> But a doctor who sees a person come in who isn't complaining about anything in particular, moves around fine, doesn't have risk factors like age or family history, and has good metrics on a blood test is probably going to say they're in fine cardio health regardless of what their wearable says. This is true of many metrics and even lab results. Good doctors will counsel you and tell you that the lab results are jus…

It doesn't help when doctors are often unaware of outliers affecting the test results. E.g. I've had a number of doctors freak out over my eGFR (kidney function) test results because the default test they use is affected by body mass and diet, and made even worse by e.g. preworkout supplements with creatine. None of my doctors have been aware of this, and I've had to explain it to them.

Re: I let ChatGPT analyze a decade of my Apple Watch data, then I called my doctor

#132

LLMs are not a mythical universal machine learning model that you can feed any input and have it magically do the same thing a specialized ML model could do. You can't feed an LLM years of time-series meteorological data, and expect it to work as a specialized weather model, you can't feed it years of medical time-series and expect it to work as a model specifically trained, and validated on this specific kind of dat…

You state a lot of things without testing it first?

A LLM has structures in its latent space which allows it to do basic math, it has also seen enough data that it has probably structures in it to detect basic trends.

A LLM doesn't just generate a stream of tokens. It generates an embedding and searches/does something in its latent space, then returns tokens.

And you don't even know at all what LLM Interfaces do in the background. Gemini creates sub-agents. There can easily be already a 'trend detector'.

I even did a test and generated random data with a trend and fet it to chatgpt. The output was very coherent and right.

Re: I let ChatGPT analyze a decade of my Apple Watch data, then I called my doctor

#133
I'll preface this with I generally trust doctors. I think on the whole they are well positioned to provide massive benefit to their patients.

I will also preface this with saying I do not think any LLM is better than the average doctor and that you are far better served going to your doctor than asking ChatGPT what your health is like on any factor.

But I'll also say that the quality of doctors varies massively, and that a good amount of doctors learn what they learn in school and do not keep up with the latest advances in research, particularly those that have broad spectrums such as GPs. LLMs that search scientific literature, etc., might point you in the direction of this research that the doctors are not aware of. Or hallucinate you into having some random disease that impacts 3 out of every million people and send you down a rabbithole for months.

Unfortunately, it's difficult to resolve this without extremely good insurance or money to burn. The depth you get and the level of information that a good preventative care cardiologist has is just miles ahead of where your average family medicine practitioner is at. Statins are an excellent example - new prescriptions are for atorvastatin are still insanely high despite it being a fairly poor choice in comparison to rosuvastatin or pitavastatin for a good chunk of the people on it. They often are behind on the latest recommendations from the NLA and AHA, etc.

There's a world where LLMs or similar can empower everyday people to talk to their doctor about their options and where they stand on health, where they don't have to hope their doc is familiar with where the science has shifted over the past 5-10 years, or cough up the money for someone who specializes in it. But that's not the world of today.

In the mean time, I do think people should be comfortable being their own advocates with their doctors. I'm lucky enough that my primary care doc is open to reading the studies I send over to him on things and work with me. Or at least patient enough to humor me. But it's let me get on medications that treat my symptoms without side effects and improved my quality of life (and hopefully life/healthspan). There's also been things I've misinterpreted - I don't pick a fight with him if we come to opposite conclusions. He's shown good faith in agreeing with me where it makes sense to me, and pushed back where it hasn't, and I acknowledge he's the expert.

Re: I let ChatGPT analyze a decade of my Apple Watch data, then I called my doctor

#134
post #131
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But a doctor who sees a person come in who isn't complaining about anything in particular, moves around fine, doesn't have risk factors like age or family history, and has good metrics on a blood test is probably going to say they're in fine cardio health regardless of what their wearable says. This is true of many metrics and even lab results. Good doctors will counsel you and tell you that the lab results are jus…

It doesn't help when doctors are often unaware of outliers affecting the test results. E.g. I've had a number of doctors freak out over my eGFR (kidney function) test results because the default test they use is affected by body mass and diet, and made even worse by e.g. preworkout supplements with creatine. None of my doctors have been aware of this, and I've had to explain it to them.

I've not seen evidence that creatine actually has significant impact on eGFR. Anecdotally, mine does not budge even on 5g a day. Meta-analysis show minimal impact, e.g. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC12590749/

Muscle mass obviously does, though. cystatin c is a better market if your body composition differs from the "average"

Re: I let ChatGPT analyze a decade of my Apple Watch data, then I called my doctor

#135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the flip side, i had some pain in my chest... RUQ (right upper quadrant for those medical folk). On the way to the hospital, ChatGPT was pretty confident it was a issue with my gallbladder due to me having a fatty meal for lunch (but it was delicious). After an extended wait time to be seen, they didnt ask about anything like that, and at the end they were like anything else to add, added it in about ChatGPT / Gal…

This reminds me of another recent comment in some other post, about doctors not diagnosing "hard to diagnose" things. There are probably ("good") reasons for this. But your own persistence, and today the help of AI, can potentially help you. The problem with it is the same problem as previously: "charlatans". Just that today the charlatan and the savior are both one and the same: The AI. I do recognize that most peop…

One challenge that may sound obvious.. is that super rare stuff gets seen super rarely, even by specalists.

In practice it means you often have to escalate from GP to local specialist to even more narrow specialist all the way to one of the regional big city specialist that almost exclusively get the weird cases.

This is because every hop is an increasingly narrow area of speciality.

Instead of just “cancer doctor” its the “GI cancer doctor” then its “GI cancer doctor of this particular organ” then its “an entire department of cancer doctors who work exclusively on this organ who will review the case together”, etc.

Re: I let ChatGPT analyze a decade of my Apple Watch data, then I called my doctor

#136
> There were big swings in my resting heart rate whenever I got a new Apple Watch, suggesting the devices may not have been tracking the same way.

First of all, wrist based HR measurements are not reliable. If you feed ChatGPT a ton of HR data that is just plain wrong, expect a bad result. Everyone who wants to track HR reliably should invest in a chest strap. The VO2 Max calculation is heavily based on your pace at a given heart rate. It makes some generalizations on on your running biomechanics. For example, if your "real" lab tested VO2 max stays constant, but you improve your biomechanics / running efficiency, you can run faster at the same effort, and your Apple watch will increase your VO2 Max number.

Re: I let ChatGPT analyze a decade of my Apple Watch data, then I called my doctor

#137
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is irresponsible for these companies I would claim that ignoring the "ChatGPT is AI and can make mistakes. Check important info." text, right under the query they type in client, is clearly more irresponsible. I think that a disclaimer like that is the most useful and reasonable approach for AI. "Here's a tool, and it's sometimes wrong." means the public can have access to LLMs and AI. The alternative, that you…

Why are you assuming that the general public ought to have access to imperfect tools? I live in a place where getting a blood test requires a referral from a doctor, who is also required to discuss the results with you.

> I live in a place where getting a blood test requires a referral from a doctor,

To me, this is horrific. I am the advocate for my own health. I trust my doctor - he's a great guy. I have spoken to him extensively around a variety of health matters and I greatly trust his opinion.

But I also recognize that he has many other patients and by necessity has to work within the general lines of probability. There is no way for him to know every confounding and contributing factor of my health, no matter how diligent I am in filling out my chart.

I get my own bloodwork done regularly. This has let me make significant changes in my life to improve health markers. I can also get a much broader spectrum of tests done than the standard panel. This has directly lead to productive conversations with my doctor!

And from a more philosophical standpoint, this is about understanding my own body. The source of the data is me. Why should this be gatekept behind a physician referral? I find it insane to think that I could be in a position where I am not allowed to find out the cholesterol serum levels in my blood unless a doctor OKs it! What the fuck?

Re: I let ChatGPT analyze a decade of my Apple Watch data, then I called my doctor

#138

I dunno, if the Apple Watch said he had a vo2max of 30, that probably means he can’t run a mile in less than 12 minutes or so. He’s probably not at all healthy…

Compared to the average patient a typical GP sees, someone who can actually run a mile is probably doing pretty well.

Re: I let ChatGPT analyze a decade of my Apple Watch data, then I called my doctor

#139
post #15

The author is a healthy person but the computer program still gave him a failing grade of F. It is irresponsible for these companies to release broken tools that can cause so much fear in real people. They are treating serious medical advice like it is just a video game or a toy. Real users should not be the ones testing these dangerous products.

> It is irresponsible for these companies I would claim that ignoring the "ChatGPT is AI and can make mistakes. Check important info." text, right under the query they type in client, is clearly more irresponsible. I think that a disclaimer like that is the most useful and reasonable approach for AI. "Here's a tool, and it's sometimes wrong." means the public can have access to LLMs and AI. The alternative, that you…

The issue is that whilst the warning exists and is there front and centre, the marketing around ChatGPT etc - which is absolutely deafening in volume and enthusiasm - is that they're PHD level experts and can do anything.

This marketing obscures what the software is _actually_ good at and gives users a poor mental model of what's going on under the hood. Dumping years worth of un-differentiated health data into a generic chatGPT chat window seems like a fundamental misunderstanding of the strengths of large language models.

A reasonable approach would be to try to explain what kind of tasks these models do well at and what kind of situations they behave poorly in.

Re: I let ChatGPT analyze a decade of my Apple Watch data, then I called my doctor

#140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many of those metrics are population or sampling measures and are confounded by many factors at an individual level. The most notorious of which is BMI; it is practically a category error to infer someone's health or risk by individual BMI, and yet doing so remains widespread amongst people that are supposed to know better. Instrumentation and testing become primarily useful at an individual level to explain or inves…

> The most notorious of which is BMI; it is practically a category error to infer someone's health or risk by individual BMI, and yet doing so remains widespread amongst people that are supposed to know better. BMI works fine for people who aren't very muscular, which is the great majority of people. Waist to height ratio might be more informative for people with higher muscle mass.

As a person who has been told I'm "morbidly obese" for decades now, I will say that doctors at almost every level look at your chart not you. I've been told time and time again that until I get my weight under control, my health will suffer.

I'm 5'8" and weigh on average 210lbs. My BMI isn't even morbidly obese, it is 31, which is just "regular" obese, but on top of that, a DEXA scan shows that I am actually only 25% body fat, with only 1lb of visceral fat.

Doctor's don't care about that, they see on the Epic chart that my BMI is > 30 and have to tell me some spiel about a healthier lifestyle so they check check off a checkbox and continue to the next screen.

Post reply on HN