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Your brain on ChatGPT: Accumulation of cognitive debt when using an AI assistant

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Re: Your brain on ChatGPT: Accumulation of cognitive debt when using an AI assistant

#131

Post by vladms »

sdoering wrote: post #111

This reminds me of the recurring pattern with every new medium: Socrates worried writing would destroy memory, Gutenberg's critics feared for contemplation, novels were "brain softening," TV was the "idiot box." That said, I'm not sure "they've always been wrong before" proves they're wrong now. Where I'm skeptical of this study: - 54 participants, only 18 in the critical 4th session - 4 months is barely enough time…

> That said, I'm not sure "they've always been wrong before" proves they're wrong now.

I think a better framing would be "abusing (using it too much or for everything) any new tool/medium can lead to negative effects". It is hard to clearly define what is abuse, so further research is required, but I think it is a healthy approach to accept there are downsides in certain cases (that applies for everything probably).

Re: Your brain on ChatGPT: Accumulation of cognitive debt when using an AI assistant

#132

Post by duskdozer »

sdoering wrote: post #111

This reminds me of the recurring pattern with every new medium: Socrates worried writing would destroy memory, Gutenberg's critics feared for contemplation, novels were "brain softening," TV was the "idiot box." That said, I'm not sure "they've always been wrong before" proves they're wrong now. Where I'm skeptical of this study: - 54 participants, only 18 in the critical 4th session - 4 months is barely enough time…

Not sure "they've always been wrong before" applies to TV being the idiot box and everything after

Re: Your brain on ChatGPT: Accumulation of cognitive debt when using an AI assistant

#133

Post by zelphirkalt »

netsharc wrote: post #21

An obvious comparison is probably the habitual usage of GPS navigation. Some people blindly follow them and some seemingly don't even remember routes they routinely take.

I think a big part of not knowing regularly taken routes is just over-reliance on GPS and subsequent self-doubt. When I am in a foreign city, I check the map on how to walk somewhere. I can easily remember some sequence of left and right turns. But in reality I still look again at the map and my position, to "make sure" I am still on the right track. Sometimes I check so often, that I become annoyed by this phone looking myself and then I intentionally try to not look for a while. It is stressful to follow the OCD or whatever to check at every turn. If I don't have to check at every turn or maybe call it sync my understanding of where I am with the position on the map, then I have more awareness of the surroundings and might even be able to enjoy the surroundings more and might even feel free to choose another, more interesting looking path.

For this experience I am not sure, whether people really don't know regularly taken routes, or they just completely lack the confidence in their familiarity with it.

Re: Your brain on ChatGPT: Accumulation of cognitive debt when using an AI assistant

#134

Post by forsakenharmony »

booleandilemma wrote: post #125
culi wrote: post #108

My friend works with people in their 20s. She recently brought up her struggles to do the math in her head for when to clock in/out for their lunches (30 minutes after an arbitrary time). The young coworker's response was "Oh I just put it into ChatGPT" The kids are using ChatGPT for simple maths...

It's ok this is just the next level of human evolution. We haven't needed to know how to do basic math since the calculator. Nowadays our AIs can read and write for us too. More obsolete skills. We can focus on higher level things now. No more focusing on sparks, we can focus on building something important. We don't have an attention span over 5 seconds anyway thanks to social media. If you don't get where I'm comin…

you need a spark to start a fire, if you offload everything to the LLM you won't understand the higher level things

Re: Your brain on ChatGPT: Accumulation of cognitive debt when using an AI assistant

#135

Post by jack_pp »

ensocode wrote: post #94
carterschonwald wrote: post #86

idk, if anything I’m thinking more. The idea that I might be able to build everything I’ve ever planned out. At least the way I’m using them, it’s like the perfect assistive device for my flavor of ADHD — I get an interactive notebook I can talk through crazy stuff with. No panacea for sure, but I’m so much higher functioning it’s surreal. I’m not even using em in the volume many folks claim, more like pair programmi…

Maybe it’s not that we’re getting stupid because we don’t use our brains anymore. It’s more like having a reliable way to make fire — so we stop obsessing over sparks and start focusing on building something more important.

Instead of being the architect, engineer, plumber, electrician, carpenter you can (most of the time) just be the architect/planner. You for sure need to know how everything works in case LLMs mess the low level stuff up but it sure is nice not needing to lay bricks and dig ditches anymore and just build houses.

Re: Your brain on ChatGPT: Accumulation of cognitive debt when using an AI assistant

#136

Post by wartywhoa23 »

sdoering wrote: post #111

This reminds me of the recurring pattern with every new medium: Socrates worried writing would destroy memory, Gutenberg's critics feared for contemplation, novels were "brain softening," TV was the "idiot box." That said, I'm not sure "they've always been wrong before" proves they're wrong now. Where I'm skeptical of this study: - 54 participants, only 18 in the critical 4th session - 4 months is barely enough time…

> TV was the "idiot box."

TV is the uber idiot box, the overlord of the army of portable smart idiot boxes.

Re: Your brain on ChatGPT: Accumulation of cognitive debt when using an AI assistant

#137

Post by latexr »

Der_Einzige wrote: post #74
latexr wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Cognitive atrophy of people using these systems is very good as it makes it easier to beat them in the market I hope you’re being facetious, as otherwise that’s a selfish view which will come back to bite you. If you live in a society, what other do and how they behave affects you too. A John Green quote on public education feels appropriate: > Let me explain why I like to pay taxes for schools even though I person…

You could maybe give this book a read to understand why calling me "selfish" is a compliment. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ego_and_Its_Own

It was neither a compliment nor an insult, only a descriptor. I didn’t call you selfish (I don’t know you), but one particular view you described. For all I know, you may be the most altruistic person in other areas of your life, but that particular view is unambiguously selfish. And the least defensible kind of selfish, too, because it only benefits you in the short term but harms you in the long run.

Either way, that’s not how compliments nor insults work. The intent is what matters, not the word.

For example, amongst finance bros, calling each other a “ruthless motherfucker” can be a compliment. But if your employee calls you that after a round of layoffs, it’s an insult.

Re: Your brain on ChatGPT: Accumulation of cognitive debt when using an AI assistant

#138

Post by piyuv »

sdoering wrote: post #111

This reminds me of the recurring pattern with every new medium: Socrates worried writing would destroy memory, Gutenberg's critics feared for contemplation, novels were "brain softening," TV was the "idiot box." That said, I'm not sure "they've always been wrong before" proves they're wrong now. Where I'm skeptical of this study: - 54 participants, only 18 in the critical 4th session - 4 months is barely enough time…

None of the examples you provided were being sold as “intelligence”

Re: Your brain on ChatGPT: Accumulation of cognitive debt when using an AI assistant

#139

Post by kachapopopow »

I mean I think this is okay I can't do math in my head at all and it hasn't stopped me from solving mathematical problems. You might not be able to write code, but you are still the primary problem solver (for now).

I have actually been improving in other fields instead like design and general cleanliness of the code, future extensability and bug prediction.

My brain is not 'normal' either so your mileage might vary.

Re: Your brain on ChatGPT: Accumulation of cognitive debt when using an AI assistant

#140

Post by richrichardsson »

mschild wrote: post #122
sdoering wrote: post #111

This reminds me of the recurring pattern with every new medium: Socrates worried writing would destroy memory, Gutenberg's critics feared for contemplation, novels were "brain softening," TV was the "idiot box." That said, I'm not sure "they've always been wrong before" proves they're wrong now. Where I'm skeptical of this study: - 54 participants, only 18 in the critical 4th session - 4 months is barely enough time…

Needs more research. Fully agree on that. That said: TV very much is the idiot box. Not necessarily because of the TV itself but rather whats being viewed. An actual engaging and interesting show/movie is good, but last time I checked, it was mostly filled with low quality trash and constant news bombardment. Calculators do do arithmetic and if you ask me to do the kind of calculations I had to do in high school by h…

> Calculators do do arithmetic and if you ask me to do the kind of calculations I had to do in high school by hand today I wouldnt be able to

I got scared by how awfully my juniour (middle? 5-11) school mathematics had slipped when helping my 9 year old boy with his homework yesterday.

I literally couldn't remember how to carry the 1 when doing subtractions of 3 digit numbers! Felt literally idiotic having to ask an LLM for help. :(

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