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EU Parliament freezes US trade deal ratification

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Re: EU Parliament freezes US trade deal ratification

#131

Post by mopsi »

4gotunameagain wrote: post #130
mrtksn wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the same with Putin. EU-Russia had a good working relationship where Russia sends oil&gas and EU sends Mercedes and Adidas and live happily. However this is not enough for the megalomaniacs at the top, this is boring they need to be conquerors they need their place in the history books be longer than a chapter. Maybe going forward there must be safeguards against power accumulation. The checks and balances obvio…

If you look at old interviews of Putin and Lavrov, it is clear that they had been warning about NATO expansion and Ukraine for a long time. On 12 June 2020, Ukraine joined NATO's enhanced opportunity partner interoperability program. On 2022, Russia invaded Ukraine. I think Putin is a dictator, but comparing Trump to Putin is simply clueless.

  > If you look at old interviews of Putin
Yes, let's do that: https://x.com/adnashmyash/status/1977146505900573089

  2008: "Crimea is not disputed territory of Ukraine, and the issues of Russian speakers are internal issues of Ukraine."

  2013: "Russia certainly doesn't plan to send troops into Ukraine."

  2014: "After the annexation of Crimea, Russia doesn't plan to further divide Ukraine."

  2019: "It's nonsense that Russia plans to attack anyone in future."

  2022: "Russia's Special Military Operation does not involve the occupation of Ukrainian territories."

  2023: "The conflict in Ukraine is not a territorial conflict — we have plenty of own territories."

  2024: "Anyone who wants Russia to give up CONQUERED TERRITORIES in Ukraine must understand that this is impossible."

Re: EU Parliament freezes US trade deal ratification

#132

Post by 4gotunameagain »

mopsi wrote: post #131
4gotunameagain wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you look at old interviews of Putin and Lavrov, it is clear that they had been warning about NATO expansion and Ukraine for a long time. On 12 June 2020, Ukraine joined NATO's enhanced opportunity partner interoperability program. On 2022, Russia invaded Ukraine. I think Putin is a dictator, but comparing Trump to Putin is simply clueless.

> If you look at old interviews of Putin Yes, let's do that: https://x.com/adnashmyash/status/1977146505900573089 2008: "Crimea is not disputed territory of Ukraine, and the issues of Russian speakers are internal issues of Ukraine." 2013: "Russia certainly doesn't plan to send troops into Ukraine." 2014: "After the annexation of Crimea, Russia doesn't plan to further divide Ukraine." 2019: "It's nonsense that Russia…

Your comment contradicts nothing from my argument. Of course the rhetoric changed as the situation changed.

It is silly to think that the largest country of the world needed a couple of ukrainian villages.

Unfortunately - and I know that you will disagree - even if Putin was the one that invaded, I place the blame on Ukraine and NATO.

Re: EU Parliament freezes US trade deal ratification

#133

Post by mopsi »

4gotunameagain wrote: post #132
mopsi wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you look at old interviews of Putin Yes, let's do that: https://x.com/adnashmyash/status/1977146505900573089 2008: "Crimea is not disputed territory of Ukraine, and the issues of Russian speakers are internal issues of Ukraine." 2013: "Russia certainly doesn't plan to send troops into Ukraine." 2014: "After the annexation of Crimea, Russia doesn't plan to further divide Ukraine." 2019: "It's nonsense that Russia…

Your comment contradicts nothing from my argument. Of course the rhetoric changed as the situation changed. It is silly to think that the largest country of the world needed a couple of ukrainian villages. Unfortunately - and I know that you will disagree - even if Putin was the one that invaded, I place the blame on Ukraine and NATO.

  > Of course the rhetoric changed as the situation changed.
Blaming NATO is just another such rhetoric, put forward because it is the most advantageous in the current situation. It activates fools who begin self-flagellation, and in the process, disrupt military aid to Ukraine, which helps the Russian war effort.

Even among Russians who can be considered serious experts, no one takes the "blame NATO" narrative seriously. It's an excuse. A pretext. Look up Hitler's speeches from early September 1939 and you will see similar rhetoric about Germany being surrounded by the Franco-British alliance, with Poland as its spearhead. The similarity is uncanny, because it follows a standard pattern of excuses used by aggressors: portraying themselves as threatened, framing their actions as defensive, and blaming external forces for the conflicts they themselves initiate.

Re: EU Parliament freezes US trade deal ratification

#134

Post by 4gotunameagain »

mopsi wrote: post #133
4gotunameagain wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment contradicts nothing from my argument. Of course the rhetoric changed as the situation changed. It is silly to think that the largest country of the world needed a couple of ukrainian villages. Unfortunately - and I know that you will disagree - even if Putin was the one that invaded, I place the blame on Ukraine and NATO.

> Of course the rhetoric changed as the situation changed. Blaming NATO is just another such rhetoric, put forward because it is the most advantageous in the current situation. It activates fools who begin self-flagellation, and in the process, disrupt military aid to Ukraine, which helps the Russian war effort. Even among Russians who can be considered serious experts, no one takes the "blame NATO" narrative serious…

Again, your comment is full of emotionally fuelled words, and no substance or refutation of my points.

I am honestly sorry your country has been invaded (you seem to be Ukrainian). But I would much rather have peace at the cost of Ukrainian territory, than continuous escalation and geopolitical rifts, at the cost of Ukrainian lives and risking an even larger conflict in Europe.

It was a mistake to let Ukraine be courted by the west.

Re: EU Parliament freezes US trade deal ratification

#135

Post by sigwinch »

4gotunameagain wrote: post #130
mrtksn wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the same with Putin. EU-Russia had a good working relationship where Russia sends oil&gas and EU sends Mercedes and Adidas and live happily. However this is not enough for the megalomaniacs at the top, this is boring they need to be conquerors they need their place in the history books be longer than a chapter. Maybe going forward there must be safeguards against power accumulation. The checks and balances obvio…

If you look at old interviews of Putin and Lavrov, it is clear that they had been warning about NATO expansion and Ukraine for a long time. On 12 June 2020, Ukraine joined NATO's enhanced opportunity partner interoperability program. On 2022, Russia invaded Ukraine. I think Putin is a dictator, but comparing Trump to Putin is simply clueless.

Putin had years to get any NATO promises in writing. I wonder why Georgia and Ukraine and now Scandinavia want membership?

Re: EU Parliament freezes US trade deal ratification

#136

Post by sigwinch »

joe_mamba wrote: post #111
disgruntledphd2 wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Out of curiosity since you made this claim and said you're european, where are the EU vents of frustration that the US lacks? Proportional representation definitely helps here. You could look at the UK as a good counter-example, where the UKIP (a Brexit supporting party) got like 15% of the votes in the 2015 election, and no seats. Where people see that voting doesn't change anything, they'll look for some other wa…

>Proportional representation definitely helps here. With this logic doesn't the US have proportional representation as well? Didn't Trump win the popular vote and republicans the senate? The majority of voters won, end of story, and the ones who lost have another chance in 3 years to flip the board. Where exactly is the missing vent valve you were talking about? >think that a lot of the issues relate to free flows of…

Trump has never won the popular vote.
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