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The UK is shaping a future of precrime and dissent management (2025)

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Re: The UK is shaping a future of precrime and dissent management (2025)

#131

Post by chimprich »

9JollyOtter wrote: post #129
chimprich wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we can fairly easily dismiss Cummings' views on anything. He was of the opinion that the best thing for the UK economy was Brexit, and that the the best team to carry out that out was to be headed by Boris Johnson. He changed his mind on Johnson, but he seems to be of the view that nothing works and that there is nothing for it but to burn everything down and start again according to the Dominic Cummings visi…

> He was of the opinion that the best thing for the UK economy was Brexit, and that the the best team to carry out that out was to be headed by Boris Johnson. Not exactly. I think you need to listen to the interviews. Dominic Cummins has solid rationale for why he believes what he believes. I would need to listen to them again to remember what he said, but what you are describing was too simplistic. Also his opinions…

> That has never been his opinion. There are many interviews with him on YouTube and I suggest you listen to them.

I've viewed and read an interminable number of interviews with Cummings.

He decided that a) Brexit was a good idea (we can see how that turned out), b) he decided to help get a Johnson government elected, and c) joined his administration as de facto chief of staff and chief advisor. If that's not a tacit approval of Johnson and his government, then what is? Of course, he backtracked later when it was a disaster.

Re: The UK is shaping a future of precrime and dissent management (2025)

#132

Post by mytailorisrich »

chimprich wrote: post #121
9JollyOtter wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think Starmer really knows what he is doing one way or another. The Island of Strangers speech out flaked Farage to the right. Dominic Cummings had a bunch of interview appearances online. His experience in office when he was working with Johnson (and many Ministers in general) is that they don't actually understand what they can and can't do in the job. I wouldn't be surprised if a similar situation is prese…

I think we can fairly easily dismiss Cummings' views on anything. He was of the opinion that the best thing for the UK economy was Brexit, and that the the best team to carry out that out was to be headed by Boris Johnson. He changed his mind on Johnson, but he seems to be of the view that nothing works and that there is nothing for it but to burn everything down and start again according to the Dominic Cummings visi…

> He was of the opinion that the best thing for the UK economy was Brexit

I don't want to start another Brexit debate or even take position on it. However I'd like to point out that the key with Brexit is the plan on what to do afterwards and that is what has been completely lacking.

Whatever one's opinion of Cummings, he did put forward a plan and that plan was never attempted (probably too bold, shall we say, for politicians to touch it). I am not commenting on whether that would have worked or not, but at least he put forward a plan and strategy. On the other hand, Bojo's "plan" for Brexit seemed to have been limited to becoming PM...

Re: The UK is shaping a future of precrime and dissent management (2025)

#133

Post by RansomStark »

teh64 wrote: post #78
azangru wrote: post #48

> The focus of policing is also shifting. As street crime continues to fall, more attention is directed toward protest, dissent, and the perceived risk of unrest. Does street crime in fact continue to fall? I keep hearing about bicycles getting stolen, or how in London, mobile phones get snatched. It was also common to hear how police fails to prosecute various kinds of crime (usually mentioned in contrast to how the…

The man who says Rishi Sunak is not English [0] might be lying? Thats crazy. [0] https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/society/2025/02/of-cou...

I guess it depends on what you mean by English. England is a country, but you can't have an English passport, you can only get a UK passport. so, English is a kinda-sorta a non-nationality, but it is very much an ethnic group.

I don't think anyone is claiming that Rishi Sunak isn't a UK citizen, but he certainly isn't a member of the English ethnic group, or any of the Celtic ethnic groups that also make up the UK's native population.

Re: The UK is shaping a future of precrime and dissent management (2025)

#134

Post by JCattheATM »

iamnothere wrote: post #95
geremiiah wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There seems to be a prevalent notion within UK establishment circles, "we are being attacked from both sides, therefore we must be right/balanced/fair", which is totally not how it works. You see used for example to defend the supposed impartiality of the BBC.

The problem isn’t the balance, it’s the police state. I don’t want an authoritarian Left government any more than I want an authoritarian Right or Center government.

The problem is most Brits, at least on HN, seem to deny what is happening and/or support it. People being arrested for holding up blank signs at Charles' coronation was ridiculous and nothing like it has happened in the US, but anytime that's brought up they pivot to mass shootings in the US or some other whataboutism.

Re: The UK is shaping a future of precrime and dissent management (2025)

#135

Post by miroljub »

chimprich wrote: post #122
wormpilled wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Predators are less likely to attack someone who can defend themselves, it's quite simple.

The empirical evidence from the US does not bear that out. Compare murder rates between the US and any peer country with more gun control.

Most of the murders (homicides) in the USA are committed using illegal weapons. Banning legal weapons wouldn't reduce crime, it would just make it harder for victims to defend themselves.

Besides, USA is not a good example. According to Wikipedia [1], high murder rate statistics in the USA are skewed due to the overrepresentation of one specific part of the population, which is not that common in comparable countries. If that population were to be removed from the statistics, the murder rate in the USA would drop significantly.

> According to the FBI 2019 Uniform Crime Report, African-Americans accounted for 55.9% of all homicide offenders in 2019, with whites 41.1%, and "Other" 3% in cases where the race was known. Including homicide offenders where the race was unknown, African-Americans accounted for 39.6% of all homicide offenders in 2019, with whites 29.1%, "Other" 2.1%, and "Unknown" 29.3%[48]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_crime_in_the_United_S...

Re: The UK is shaping a future of precrime and dissent management (2025)

#136

Post by mytailorisrich »

iamnothere wrote: post #91
slfreference wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I heard Boeing whistleblowers died unexpectedly. Two prominent Boeing whistleblowers, John Barnett (died March 2024) and Joshua Dean (died April 2024), have died in recent times, raising significant concerns about retaliation and safety at the aerospace giant; Barnett died from a self-inflicted gunshot wound after battling Boeing in a retaliation lawsuit, while Dean died from a sudden infection after raising quality…

Also Suchir Balaji. And if you’re willing to go back further, Michael Hastings and Gary Webb. But that’s all the US. For the UK you need Gareth Williams, the GHCQ analyst who was found dead inside a padlocked duffel bag.

> For the UK you need Gareth Williams, the GHCQ analyst who was found dead inside a padlocked duffel bag.

And whose death was "probably an accident" according to the Met Police...

Re: The UK is shaping a future of precrime and dissent management (2025)

#137

Post by room271 »

As a Brit, I find it very hard to believe that the majority of comments in this thread are not either written out of ignorance or are bots.

The article is from an anarchist organisation and sensationalist. 'Precrime' in the sense described is performed routinely by all intelligence agencies and police networks in the West.

Criticisms from across the pond reflect a spectacular lack of perspective. The UK is far more free than the US - a country with a fascist leader, ICE thugs who go about masked with guns and shoot to kill US citizens apparently with the full endorsement of the US President, a weaponised justice system that can target the chairman of the federal bank and strip a military Senator of his pension and rank simply for what he says (so much for 'free speech!'), and levels of inequality and centralised wealth and political funding that undermine democracy.

Re: The UK is shaping a future of precrime and dissent management (2025)

#138

Post by jbjbjbjb »

Aurornis wrote: post #87
jbjbjbjb wrote: post #75

That’s just the way “freedom news” is framing it. Social movements don’t just happen from grassroots these days. They’re seeded by foreign states. A simpler solution would be require ids for social media posting. If you don’t provide an id you get a limited number of views. And I don’t see anything wrong with a preventative system in principle, we should be able to join up social services information with policing, b…

> A simpler solution would be require ids for social media posting It’s strange times when even the comments on posts about government overreach are calling for more government overreach and limitations on speech and privacy. Do you really want to have to verify your ID to post anything online, including HN?

Yeah it might be just be a verified token to say I’m citizen of the country. Doesn’t have to be my actual id. The OSA is a crappy implementation.

Re: The UK is shaping a future of precrime and dissent management (2025)

#139

Post by Nursie »

JCattheATM wrote: post #134
iamnothere wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem isn’t the balance, it’s the police state. I don’t want an authoritarian Left government any more than I want an authoritarian Right or Center government.

The problem is most Brits, at least on HN, seem to deny what is happening and/or support it. People being arrested for holding up blank signs at Charles' coronation was ridiculous and nothing like it has happened in the US, but anytime that's brought up they pivot to mass shootings in the US or some other whataboutism.

Because it is massively exaggerated by those with an agenda to distract from the US.

But go on, tell me about how “free speech zones” are meaningfully different to this. You won’t be arrested so long as you stay in your zone down the street and round the corner and out of sight.

The UK has serious problems, but reading Americans catastrophising over this stuff as I have been for a couple of decades now is always incredible. Take the beam from your own eyes. And stop believing lies about the streets of London being a war zone.

Re: The UK is shaping a future of precrime and dissent management (2025)

#140

Post by jbjbjbjb »

thmsths wrote: post #123
Aurornis wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A simpler solution would be require ids for social media posting It’s strange times when even the comments on posts about government overreach are calling for more government overreach and limitations on speech and privacy. Do you really want to have to verify your ID to post anything online, including HN?

And I am willing to bet that on top of the chilling effect on regular people, it will only act as an inconvenience for the bad actors as they will find ways to circumvent it. Controlling the online discourse is far too valuable, they are not going to just shrug and give up because the government puts up a barrier.

What chilling effect? Have you seen what people post on facebook under their own name.
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