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The Great Gatsby is the most misunderstood novel (2021)

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Re: The Great Gatsby is the most misunderstood novel (2021)

#131

Post by [deleted] »

nosianu wrote: post #114
yanhangyhy wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In my limited experience of Russian literature, the struggle doesn't lead to success! There is a meme comparing different countries’ literature: France: “I would die for love.” England: “I would die for honor.” America: “I would die for freedom.” Russia: “I will die.” The harsh climate and scarce resources in Russia prevent it from producing something like the American Dream. People there seem to be more pessimisti…

> scarce resources What now??? Russia is one of the most resource-rich countries on the planet! They are just very inefficient in doing anything with it. The country and all its people should all be among the wealthiest on the planet.

[deleted]

Re: The Great Gatsby is the most misunderstood novel (2021)

#132

Post by yanhangyhy »

nosianu wrote: post #114
yanhangyhy wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In my limited experience of Russian literature, the struggle doesn't lead to success! There is a meme comparing different countries’ literature: France: “I would die for love.” England: “I would die for honor.” America: “I would die for freedom.” Russia: “I will die.” The harsh climate and scarce resources in Russia prevent it from producing something like the American Dream. People there seem to be more pessimisti…

> scarce resources What now??? Russia is one of the most resource-rich countries on the planet! They are just very inefficient in doing anything with it. The country and all its people should all be among the wealthiest on the planet.

The impression of Russia as a resource-rich nation didn’t really take shape until after World War II. The widespread use of oil and natural gas only spans about a century, which hasn’t been enough time to fundamentally alter the literary essence of Russia.

And USSR is really not good at produce normal goods…

Re: The Great Gatsby is the most misunderstood novel (2021)

#133

Post by yanhangyhy »

idoubtit wrote: post #118
yanhangyhy wrote: post #67

Personally, aside from Russian literature, I now prefer American literature, which I think is underestimated in China. I really like that film adaptation, but what the film expresses is something else, not the same as the novel’s core theme. My own understanding is that American literature has at least three themes that are very distinctive and different from Europe(or other countries). One is the depiction of desola…

I've read thousands of books. There are good novels everywhere, and no country has the exclusivity of any theme. > One is the depiction of desolation and human loneliness before the American continent was developed into a prosperous land. Of course, classical European literature didn't focus on the American wilderness. Though the most famous book on this theme is probably Defoe's Robinson Crusoe . And I enjoyed T.E.…

I think what you said makes a lot of sense, and my earlier comment wasn’t very rigorous. More accurately, the most interesting thing about the United States is that it has almost stripped away all other influencing factors—no deep history, no influence from classical literature. If we set aside the atrocities committed against the Native Americans, it’s as if the country started from an untouched, resource-rich continent and rapidly evolved into the most advanced capitalist society. This makes the contrast between material wealth and the spiritual world especially stark and easy to observe.

Re: The Great Gatsby is the most misunderstood novel (2021)

#134

Post by sotix »

yanhangyhy wrote: post #86
Exoristos wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ancestral Americans really do not have a "spiritual world," in my opinion, as acquisitiveness and power games suffuse even our churches, spiritual movements, and fraternal societies. The emptiness you delineate is very integral to the long-term American experience. As a reaction, addictive and manic personalities are endemic.

You reminded me of that experiment a social media influencer did earlier. American Christian churches refused to provide her with help, but other religions did.

That sounds like a one-off anecdote. For my anecdote, when the government was shutdown and people on food stamps needed help, I counted 8 churches in my neighborhood serving meals to an influx of people, which aligns with my experience throughout my entire life. Maybe some churches don't help people as much as they should, but that seems to go against a core philosophy of the church and my experience with dozens of churches across America.

Re: The Great Gatsby is the most misunderstood novel (2021)

#136

Post by cainxinth »

The admiration some readers have for Jay Gatsby (even though he’s meant to be a tragic figure) reminds me of how some currently view the character of Patrick Bateman from American Psycho as aspirational (minus the murder). I think America values success and beauty so dearly that it can override better judgement in cases.

Re: The Great Gatsby is the most misunderstood novel (2021)

#137

Post by Balgair »

yanhangyhy wrote: post #67

Personally, aside from Russian literature, I now prefer American literature, which I think is underestimated in China. I really like that film adaptation, but what the film expresses is something else, not the same as the novel’s core theme. My own understanding is that American literature has at least three themes that are very distinctive and different from Europe(or other countries). One is the depiction of desola…

I'd add in a 4th category: Slavery.

Though no longer pertinent explicitly, the original sin of America is a potent literary force. We still feel it's sting in our African American literature nearly axiomatically. Almost by definition, any southern gothic literature will revolve around the effects of slavery, which includes some of our greatest novels.

Per the Great Gatsby, the story itself is one of the most powerful arcs out there: The Hero arc with a disillusionment ending. It's not exactly a negative change arc for the protagonist (Nick), but it's meant to feel like one. Nick is physically better off than he starts out, but his opinions and feelings about the world at large are negative. He has grown up, fought the dragon, healed the sick king, beaten the bully, encouraged the coward, and gotten the damsel. But Fitzgerald adeptly makes them all hollow. It's a great and quick read. A really tight plot and good prose.

Re: The Great Gatsby is the most misunderstood novel (2021)

#138

Post by ZeroSolstice »

brightball wrote: post #123
yanhangyhy wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You reminded me of that experiment a social media influencer did earlier. American Christian churches refused to provide her with help, but other religions did.

Those churches referred her to food pantries that were funded and operated by donations and volunteers from multiple churches. They help people so often that there are entire subsets of organizations dedicated to different areas of need. Food, housing, disaster relief, clothing, rehab, women’s shelters. One church in North Carolina that wasn’t involved with a local food pantry did just help her directly. In order to…

I think the saying is "missing the forest for the trees.[1]"

Referring someone to another food bank or resource is not addressing or owning the immediate problem, which is what the experiment showed. Those organizations failed at their primary objective and instead of re-evaluating why they failed they hid behind process and procedure and how they were being tricked since it wasn't a "real" problem.

There was a proper way to handle this situation as anyone who has worked or called into customer service or tech support where their issue was addressed no matter what the internal structure of the organization was.

[1] https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/miss%20the%20fore...

Re: The Great Gatsby is the most misunderstood novel (2021)

#139

Post by ChrisMarshallNY »

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #115
anal_reactor wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Because you feel as if they lack nothing, yet they seem like empty shells: their lives are filled with commodities, and all their actions seem stripped of a spiritual dimension. This is exactly the situation I am in. I really really don't know what to do.

I am always a strong advocate of doing volunteer/nonprofit work. Folks on HN have some truly valuable skills that could make a huge difference. NPO work also brings together passionate, like-minded people. It’s an automatic community.

> -1 points

Well, that was quite a surprising reaction.

I guess it makes a statement. I'm just not sure what the statement is, though.

Re: The Great Gatsby is the most misunderstood novel (2021)

#140

Post by yanhangyhy »

Balgair wrote: post #137
yanhangyhy wrote: post #67

Personally, aside from Russian literature, I now prefer American literature, which I think is underestimated in China. I really like that film adaptation, but what the film expresses is something else, not the same as the novel’s core theme. My own understanding is that American literature has at least three themes that are very distinctive and different from Europe(or other countries). One is the depiction of desola…

I'd add in a 4th category: Slavery. Though no longer pertinent explicitly, the original sin of America is a potent literary force. We still feel it's sting in our African American literature nearly axiomatically. Almost by definition, any southern gothic literature will revolve around the effects of slavery, which includes some of our greatest novels. Per the Great Gatsby, the story itself is one of the most powerful…

Yes. I’ve probably only read Gone with the Wind and Uncle Tom’s Cabin. Still, it feels like a fair share of American novels touch on this theme to varying degrees.
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