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US destroying its reputation as a scientific leader – European science diplomat

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Re: US destroying its reputation as a scientific leader – European science diplomat

#131

Post by cgio »

robswc wrote: post #124
cgio wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You allude to it yourself in your example. People, from all over the world, were doing research in the US, because that’s the only place they could really do it. Now that this option is disappearing, the system will have to adjust and find another place. When that happens, US loses. Until it does, we all do.

People have been claiming "this is the end" of the US, for some reason or another, ever since I've been on the internet (since 2005). This same sentiment was going around in 2016 when Trump was doing those ridiculous "bans" on immigration. Since then I would argue the US has only increased its influence and power over Europe. Europe needs help with the war and the US has already given immeasurable resources. Europe h…

Just to make it clear, I never said the next place will be Europe. Could be anywhere. Systems evolve creatively, I would not dare a prediction.

Re: US destroying its reputation as a scientific leader – European science diplomat

#132

Post by zeroCalories »

exceptione wrote: post #123
zeroCalories wrote: post #39

I always feel weird reading statements from the EU regarding this relationship. There's always talk of the U.S abandoning it's position, guilt tripping, etc. but very little about what the EU plans to do in retaliation. Cut off the U.S from the research? Retaliatory tariffs? Why is the U.S leaving NATO a concern for the EU, but not a concern for the U.S? The fact that these are not the top talking points makes me thi…

> guilt tripping, etc. but very little about what the EU plans to do in retaliation. The narratives are harmful. What would retaliation bring? The EU doesn't fancy a winner-takes-all mindset. There is no joy if the US goes down as some sort of backwards kleptocracy. There is no joy if the US populace slide back into the gilded age. It doesn't make the EU better. On the contrary. It will be a loss for both sides. Henc…

The point isn't to crush the U.S in retaliation, it's to show why maintaining a relationship is mutually beneficial. It's troubling that the EU can't produce any concrete reasons why that's the case.

Re: US destroying its reputation as a scientific leader – European science diplomat

#133

Post by tsoukase »

adventured wrote: post #61
AndrewKemendo wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

The greatest era of prosperity expansion and peace in world history courtesy of pax Americana. The best decades - measurably - for humanity overall have taken place since the US assumed that role post WW2.

The post WWII peace was made possible due the existence of nuclear weapons. It will go on after the next global power takes over.

Re: US destroying its reputation as a scientific leader – European science diplomat

#134

Post by consumer451 »

swagasaurus-rex wrote: post #95
lbrito wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? China is the alternative. How many countries has China waged war against, toppled democratic governments, established puppet março-states and invaded since 1949?

Korea 1950, Tibet 1951, Vietnam 1979 (yes, China invaded Vietnam after USA withdrew). China also has had border skirmishes with Burma, India, USSR.

Currently invading the Philippines, using "salami tactics."

Re: US destroying its reputation as a scientific leader – European science diplomat

#135

Post by sallveburrpi »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #44
sallveburrpi wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not entirely baseless though : > the US government has cut scientific grants to academics working on diversity-related topics, halted biomedical grants to international partners, and demanded universities shut down academic units that “belittle” conservative ideas, or risk losing federal funding. > These efforts have in some cases been overturned by courts or faced opposition from universities. And huge proposed cuts…

Sure. But the editorialized titled makes it sound like we have evidence of the damage. The article doesn’t provide that, it’s citing a political speech.

For sure and it’s not even clear if there will be be a lot of long term damage. The next admin might roll all of it back and then some.

It doesn’t seem extremely likely at the moment but I also don’t think it’s super unlikely.

Re: US destroying its reputation as a scientific leader – European science diplomat

#136

Post by lbrito »

swagasaurus-rex wrote: post #95
lbrito wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? China is the alternative. How many countries has China waged war against, toppled democratic governments, established puppet março-states and invaded since 1949?

Korea 1950, Tibet 1951, Vietnam 1979 (yes, China invaded Vietnam after USA withdrew). China also has had border skirmishes with Burma, India, USSR.

Yes, I'm aware.

There are literally thousands of years of sino-korean wars, so its hard to pin that blame on a specific government. Tibet is a more straightforward case of imperial expansionism from China, although it is also a centuries-old one, dating from Qing dynasty (1700s). The border skirmishes with India stem from mutual dissatisfaction with old British imperial border lines, which both governments disagree with.

Now compare that with the USA list. China's list is, to say the least, much more lightweight, straightforward and understandable. I'd go with that list any day, and most of the world would too.

Re: US destroying its reputation as a scientific leader – European science diplomat

#137

Post by sallveburrpi »

adventured wrote: post #109
sallveburrpi wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Worse for US Americans probably - rest of the world? Not so clear cut

The greatest timeline for Europe in its history? Post WW2 to now. The greatest timeline for Latin America overall? Post WW2 to now. The greatest timeline for Oceania overall? Post WW2 to now. The greatest timeline for India? Post WW2 to now. The greatest timeline for the rest of Asia overall? Post WW2 to now. Coming up on 80 years. Here's a short list, please tell me which prior ~80 year period in history these natio…

And? I don’t see the direct correlation. The same might be true if we get a China-dominated century - or not who tf knows…

Re: US destroying its reputation as a scientific leader – European science diplomat

#139

Post by tsoukase »

The US might remain a leader country in science and other fields for many more years. The problem is that fewer persons will participate at this (due to less research positions, company lay offs, replacing AI, tariffs and other similar reasons). And this is bad for the people more than the country.

Re: US destroying its reputation as a scientific leader – European science diplomat

#140

Post by lbrito »

idiotsecant wrote: post #128
AndrewKemendo wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

It's popular to hate the US but I'd like to know what country you think would be better at the role of global hegemon. What country would you suggest would do a better job? Be specific.

That's not a hard question. Any country that invaded, plundered and destroyed democracies less than the US has in the last hundred years.
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