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TikTok unlawfully tracks shopping habits and use of dating apps?

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Re: TikTok unlawfully tracks shopping habits and use of dating apps?

#131

Post by vkou »

ehnto wrote: post #124
vkou wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The advertisers don't get the raw data feeds necessary to do that.

What raw data do you mean? They get so much data, it's hard for me to imagine anything that might be missing relevant to this context to be honest.

Do you work on ad platforms? If you did, that imagination would be reined in quite a bit.

The gist of it is that the platforms carefully curate what data they provide to their customers. They don't want to give anything low level away, both for compliance reasons and because it would undermine their own business. Facebook makes money by charging for access to their users, not by giving away enough information about them for one of their customers to become a competitor.

Almost all of the data the platforms provide is 'How well is your marketing campaign doing and among whom' - on a high level. There are issues with poor designs leaking information when the campaign only hit 20 people, but as a general rule of thumb, but that's an exception, not the rule.

Re: TikTok unlawfully tracks shopping habits and use of dating apps?

#132

Post by Teever »

ehnto wrote: post #48
slg wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know, maybe they are colluding, but it is funny to default to that assumption over both platforms just delivering you the same content because you have the same behavior across both apps.

They don't have to collude, the third party advertisers that collate and provide shadow profiles do that work for them.

That's the collusion that the OP is talking about.

It's just done through middlemen.

Re: TikTok unlawfully tracks shopping habits and use of dating apps?

#133

Post by RandallBrown »

wkat4242 wrote: post #86
RandallBrown wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TikTok knows where you are and where they are. Easy connection to make.

Do you have to share your location with it? I don't use it but similar apps like Instagram don't have my location permission.

Even without location they can get a pretty good idea of your location from your IP address or any other signals. Their neighbor also might have allowed access to their phonebook or something like that to make the connection obvious.

Re: TikTok unlawfully tracks shopping habits and use of dating apps?

#134

Post by [deleted] »

Mathnerd314 wrote: post #66
__MatrixMan__ wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're not identical concepts, but I've been bringing up "dopamine hygiene" a lot lately and it seems to resonate with people. Given that these companies tend to converge on addiction as their business model, I think there's a lot of overlap.

It seems an absurd amount of people misuse the term dopamine, I found this video https://youtu.be/x6_Ukic1tRM?t=1297 (in Polish, but there are subtitles and dubs). If you want to continue to spread "manipulative disinformation", by all means, some people have to be evil, but just be clear that it is pseudoscience up front.

[deleted]

Re: TikTok unlawfully tracks shopping habits and use of dating apps?

#135

Post by __MatrixMan__ »

Mathnerd314 wrote: post #66
__MatrixMan__ wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're not identical concepts, but I've been bringing up "dopamine hygiene" a lot lately and it seems to resonate with people. Given that these companies tend to converge on addiction as their business model, I think there's a lot of overlap.

It seems an absurd amount of people misuse the term dopamine, I found this video https://youtu.be/x6_Ukic1tRM?t=1297 (in Polish, but there are subtitles and dubs). If you want to continue to spread "manipulative disinformation", by all means, some people have to be evil, but just be clear that it is pseudoscience up front.

Just like practicing "oral hygiene" doesn't mean treating your mouth like an enemy, nor does "dopamine hygiene" mean treating dopamine like an enemy.

It just means keeping track of the difference between empty dopamine, which rewards behaviors that don't benefit you, from dopamine which is working in its normal evolutionary context--to encourage behaviors that do, and being intentional about how often you engage in the former.

"Digital hygiene" sounds like the start of a mental framework with good intentions, and which might help somebody with their World of Warcraft problem. But that problem isn't really unique to digital things, they're just a commonly found example of it. If you have a habit of seeking out empty/fast dopamine loops, where the rewards come frequently and are otherwise useless except as a reason to continue the useless behavior, then you're likely to come off your World of Warcraft addiction and immediately find a (potentially non-digital) addiction to put in its place.

My point is that yes we need a new kind of hygiene to deal with modern kinds of manipulation, but no we shouldn't restrict its scope to computers. I watched the video, but it's pushing back against something altogether weirder than my point here. I don't see how this counts as "manipulative disinformation," or is in contradiction with established science about the function of dopamine.

Re: TikTok unlawfully tracks shopping habits and use of dating apps?

#136

Post by quesera »

august125 wrote: post #80
quesera wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only websites that are allowed to run apps on my phone are financial institutions. All other websites are just websites.

This was Steve Jobs' original vision for the iPhone, before he relented and launched the App Store. Maybe it was the correct one.

Not exactly. The iPhone launched with no App Store at all. No exceptions for financial institutions. I allow financial institution apps on my phone because I believe that the security guarantees on iOS are stronger than on my desktop OS, and also that the customer relationship with the banks/etc are more valuable (to the bank) when their apps are not infected with tracking and ads, etc. And of course, the bank knows a lot about me anyway due to transaction history, and they're well-regulated, understand privacy, etc.

Also, I have trouble believing that the App Store and public SDKs went from "not on the roadmap" to "released" in one year. I know it's the popular narrative, but I feel like there must be more to the story. It's plausible that they were being worked on but a final management decision hadn't been made to launch them?

Re: TikTok unlawfully tracks shopping habits and use of dating apps?

#137

Post by reaperducer »

wkat4242 wrote: post #126
mejutoco wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wifi ssids around you might be enough.

That shouldn't be accessible without location permission, that loophole was fixed a long time ago.

Cell tower data is readily available for a modest price. It's not hard to triangulate someone with "good enough" accuracy for marketing purposes.

Also, the world is filled with millions of Bluetooth-logging devices. They're everywhere from department stores (to monitor foot traffic) to the side of the road (to monitor traffic speed).

Re: TikTok unlawfully tracks shopping habits and use of dating apps?

#138

Post by hekkle »

aembleton wrote: post #116
hekkle wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair enough, it does make sense that they will maximise their profits where they can, I'm just saying that it (the app not the website) refuses to work unless you provide it a full scope of literally every permission available. Maybe it has more to do with attestation, and verifying that you are not a scammer, than stealing and selling data?

What does the app give you that the website doesn't? I've never tried it as the website works just fine.

Just ease of use on a small screen really. I don't use it too much anymore anyway, I'm in Australia, so Amazon's not as big here as it is in the US. We mainly use Ali-Express or Temu, because those apps deliver from China, which is close and more convenient for here, relative to the US.

Re: TikTok unlawfully tracks shopping habits and use of dating apps?

#139

Post by hekkle »

gruez wrote: post #59
hekkle wrote: post #3

If you want to find which apps are the worst at this use GrapheneOS. Amazon flat out REFUSES to work unless it has unfettered access to everything.

Doesn't grapheneos have the same permission model as stock android? The only thing it adds is internet access and sensors (eg. gyroscope) access. What extra stuff is amazon asking for?

No, the permissions are very granular compared to Stock Android. I can't remember all of them from scratch, but by way of example Graphene allows for 'contact scopes', which sets permissions for which contacts you will share with each app, rather than a blanket "you can access all of my contacts" that Android has. I know when I tried it last (this was more than a year ago mind you so it might have changed), if you didn't give Amazon access to all contacts it somehow knew and refused to work.

Re: TikTok unlawfully tracks shopping habits and use of dating apps?

#140

Post by gerdesj »

hekkle wrote: post #51
gerdesj wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I (UK based) have pfblocker-ng running at the perimeter with quite a lot of blocking. My browser FF has uBlock Origin and Privacy Badger too. Amazon works fine. I suspect they work along the rather practical lines of: if we can snag your data we will but if you want to block our efforts at predation but want to spend out, we are fine with that too. Amazon absolutely will not refuse your money and they are jolly good…

Fair enough, it does make sense that they will maximise their profits where they can, I'm just saying that it (the app not the website) refuses to work unless you provide it a full scope of literally every permission available. Maybe it has more to do with attestation, and verifying that you are not a scammer, than stealing and selling data?

Ahh, my time to apologise for my assumptions. I'm browser on PC/laptop first and rarely use a phone and never for Amazon. I also rock Linux on everything that I can, so my experience will obviously be different on "PC" too.

It really is not about attestation etc, I'm afraid. Its all about maximising profitability.

If you use a walled garden friendly device then you will be frisked inappropriately at every opportunity.

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