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Is Mozilla trying hard to kill itself?

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Re: Is Mozilla trying hard to kill itself?

#131

Post by RossBencina »

lxgr wrote: post #41

>> He says he could begin to block ad blockers in Firefox and estimates that’d bring in another $150 million, but he doesn’t want to do that. It feels off-mission. > It may be just me, but I read this as “I don't want to but I'll kill AdBlockers in Firefox for buckerinos ”. Yes, that does seem like a pretty uncharitable interpretation of that quote. I read it as "we won't do it, even though it would bring in $150M US…

> It feels off-mission.

That's supposedly The Verge paraphrasing the CEO (Unfortunately I can't verify because the full article requires subscription.) I would like to know what the CEO actually said because "it feels off-mission" is a strange thing for the leader of the mission to say. I would hope that they know the mission inside out. No need to go by feels.

Re: Is Mozilla trying hard to kill itself?

#132

Post by chillfox »

bjord wrote: post #66
bluehex wrote: post #16

I just noticed last week that Chrome was putting multiple versions of some 4GB AI model [1] on my hard disk that I'd never asked for, so when I upgraded my laptop I took the opportunity to switch to Firefox, and now this. My image of Mozilla as a bastion for user first software just shattered. [1]: https://developer.chrome.com/docs/ai/get-started

last I checked, firefox doesn't download AI models unless you try to use a (clearly-labeled) feature that requires them. you can also manage/uninstall them at about:addons https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/on-device-models totally uncharitable interpretation of the quote linked here aside, how is providing an interface for using fully local models not user first software?

If the users don't want the feature, then pushing it on them is not user first. It's that simple.

Re: Is Mozilla trying hard to kill itself?

#133

Post by forgotpwd16 »

cardanome wrote: post #53
boobsbr wrote: post #7

The Mozilla Corporation has earned around USD ~500 million in 2023. The Mozilla Foundation has received around USD ~26 million in 2023 in donation from the Mozilla Corporation (~70%) and other sources (~30%).

The Mozilla Foundation does lots of "spreading awareness" but does not contribute to Firefox development. That is the most vexing part. I want to donate for Firefox development. Not marketing, not side projects, let me just fund the devs. But no, that is not possible. Blender is a huge success story relying on sponsors and donations, Wikipedia is swimming in money but no we can't just have a free browser. No we need…

Ironically Wikimedia is also throwing money around to side projects, outreach, etc. But luckily for them their products are essentially run by volunteers.

Re: Is Mozilla trying hard to kill itself?

#134

Post by sharken »

p-e-w wrote: post #128
nialv7 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The interpretation is not the problem. Whether he will do it, is actually secondary to the fact that he thinks cutting adblock can bringing in money. No, it will just kill the browser. The fact he thinks otherwise tells me how out of touch he is.

Firefox has a market share around 3%. Even most technologists stopped using it long ago. Many banks and government websites don’t even support it anymore and loudly tell people to use Chrome instead, especially in developing countries. Nothing can kill Firefox, because it’s already dead for all practical purposes.

Given the current state of the Chrome family of browsers and the anti adblocker stance from Google, i'd think that alone would guarantee Firefox a steady user base.

Not sure how users cope with Chrome-based browsers and intrusive ads.

Re: Is Mozilla trying hard to kill itself?

#135

Post by graemep »

p-e-w wrote: post #128
nialv7 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The interpretation is not the problem. Whether he will do it, is actually secondary to the fact that he thinks cutting adblock can bringing in money. No, it will just kill the browser. The fact he thinks otherwise tells me how out of touch he is.

Firefox has a market share around 3%. Even most technologists stopped using it long ago. Many banks and government websites don’t even support it anymore and loudly tell people to use Chrome instead, especially in developing countries. Nothing can kill Firefox, because it’s already dead for all practical purposes.

> Many banks and government websites don’t even support it anymore and loudly tell people to use Chrome instead, especially in developing countries.

I cannot remember the last time I came across one myself.

Re: Is Mozilla trying hard to kill itself?

#136

Post by jamesnorden »

boomboomsubban wrote: post #96
kuschku wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You wouldn't calculate the expected RoI of killing adblockers if killing adblockers was never considered.

It's not hard to imagine the last default search contract negotiation had Google go "we'll give you $x if you kill manifest v2, $x-$150 million if you don't." edited to correct my misunderstanding.

Firefox supports Manifest v3, they just didn't kill Manifest v2 after implementing it.

Re: Is Mozilla trying hard to kill itself?

#137

Post by p-e-w »

matwood wrote: post #113
kuschku wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You wouldn't calculate the expected RoI of killing adblockers if killing adblockers was never considered.

Part of being CEO/running a business is considering all options, but it doesn't mean it will ever move beyond the ROI/risk phase. Ever read one of the risk assessments in a companies public filings? It's the same thing.

All options that are in line with the organization’s mission.

The CEO of an organization like Mozilla even considering blocking adblockers for profit is like the president of Amnesty International considering to sell lists of dissidents to the secret police.

Re: Is Mozilla trying hard to kill itself?

#138

Post by tda »

p-e-w wrote: post #128
nialv7 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The interpretation is not the problem. Whether he will do it, is actually secondary to the fact that he thinks cutting adblock can bringing in money. No, it will just kill the browser. The fact he thinks otherwise tells me how out of touch he is.

Firefox has a market share around 3%. Even most technologists stopped using it long ago. Many banks and government websites don’t even support it anymore and loudly tell people to use Chrome instead, especially in developing countries. Nothing can kill Firefox, because it’s already dead for all practical purposes.

I use Firefox as my daily browser. If i have a website that fails to work, I might try chrome maybe once every two months. And then it usually also doesn't work. So for all browsing I do on the internet, Firefox works like a charm

Re: Is Mozilla trying hard to kill itself?

#139

Post by autoexec »

Croftengea wrote: post #62
anothernewdude wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It wouldn't bring in their estimate, it'd kill the browser.

Right? This is what all these MBAs and supply chain efficiency experts never get.

They don't care if their plans cause long term harm as long as they can cash out after the short term profits come in. As long as there are new companies/products to jump to and exploit next they're making money which is all they care about.

Re: Is Mozilla trying hard to kill itself?

#140

Post by csomar »

lxgr wrote: post #41

>> He says he could begin to block ad blockers in Firefox and estimates that’d bring in another $150 million, but he doesn’t want to do that. It feels off-mission. > It may be just me, but I read this as “I don't want to but I'll kill AdBlockers in Firefox for buckerinos ”. Yes, that does seem like a pretty uncharitable interpretation of that quote. I read it as "we won't do it, even though it would bring in $150M US…

> It feels off-mission.

He didn't say it is off-mission. But just that it feels. My guess is that he is looking at a higher number.

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