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No AI* Here – A Response to Mozilla's Next Chapter

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Re: No AI* Here – A Response to Mozilla's Next Chapter

#131

Post by tdeck »

figmert wrote: post #127
tdeck wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aside: Does anyone actually use summarization features? I've never once been tempted to "summarize" because when I read something I either want to read the entire thing, or look for something specific. Things I want summarized, like academic papers, already have an abstract or a synopsis.

You mean you don't summarize those terrible articles you happen to come across and you're a little intrigued, hoping that there's some substance, and then you read, and it just repeats the same thing over and over again with different wording? Anyway, I sometimes still give them the benefit of the doubt, and end up doing a summary. Often they get summarized into 1 or 2 sentences.

Maybe I should start doing that but I usually just... don't read them.

Re: No AI* Here – A Response to Mozilla's Next Chapter

#132

Post by jacquesm »

_heimdall wrote: post #122
jacquesm wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would strongly suggest you use your turnsignals, always , without exception. You are relying on perfect awareness of your surroundings which isn't going to be the case over a longer stretch of time and you are obliged to signal changes in direction irrespective of whether or not you believe there are others around you. I'm saying this as a frequent cyclist who more than once has been cut off by cars that were not i…

Its a matter of approach and I wouldn't say what I've found to work for me would work for anyone else. In my experience, I'm best served by trying to reinforce awareness rather than relying on it. If I got into the habit of always using blinkers regardless of my surroundings I would end up paying less attention while driving. I rode motorcycles for years and got very much into the habit of assuming that no one on the…

This is all fine and good until you accidentally kill someone with your blinkers off and then you have to wonder 'what if' the rest of your life.

Seriously: signal your turns and stop defending the indefensible, this is just silly.

Re: No AI* Here – A Response to Mozilla's Next Chapter

#133

Post by GMoromisato »

schoen wrote: post #126
jrjeksjd8d wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be more charitable to TFA, machine translation is a field where there aren't great alternatives and the downside is pretty limited. If something is in another language you don't read it at all. You can translate a bunch of documents and benchmark the result and demonstrate that the model doesn't completely change simple sentences. Another related area is OCR - there are sometimes mistakes, but it's tractable to cr…

There's an older tradition of rule-based machine translation. In these methods, someone really does understand exactly what the program does, in a detailed way; it's designed like other programs, according to someone's explicit understanding. There's still active research in this field; I have a friend who's very deep into it. The trouble is that statistical MT (the things that became neural net MT) started achieving…

This is the bitter lesson.[1]

I too used to think that rule-based AI would be better than statistical, Markov chain parrots, but here we are.

Though I still think/hope that some hybrid system of rule-based logic + LLMs will end up being the winner eventually.

----------------

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitter_lesson

Re: No AI* Here – A Response to Mozilla's Next Chapter

#134

Post by _heimdall »

jacquesm wrote: post #132
_heimdall wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its a matter of approach and I wouldn't say what I've found to work for me would work for anyone else. In my experience, I'm best served by trying to reinforce awareness rather than relying on it. If I got into the habit of always using blinkers regardless of my surroundings I would end up paying less attention while driving. I rode motorcycles for years and got very much into the habit of assuming that no one on the…

This is all fine and good until you accidentally kill someone with your blinkers off and then you have to wonder 'what if' the rest of your life. Seriously: signal your turns and stop defending the indefensible, this is just silly.

You're making a huge leap here. I'm raising only had signaling intentionally rather than automatically has made me pay more attention to others on the road. You're claiming that that action which has proven to make me pay closer attention will kill someone.

Re: No AI* Here – A Response to Mozilla's Next Chapter

#135

Post by pdyc »

how is adding ai chat different than asking search engine? I think mozilla wants to make sure that it gets some cut for sending queries to ai similar to their existing revenue model where they get cut for sending it to google. Similar to SE's users should have a choice to use any ai or not.

Re: No AI* Here – A Response to Mozilla's Next Chapter

#137

Post by enriquto »

kbelder wrote: post #67
koolala wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm ok with Translation because it's best solved with AI. I'm not ok with it when Firefox "uses AI to read your open tabs" to do things that don't even need an AI based solution.

There's levels of this, though, more than two: local, open model local, proprietary model remote, open model (are there these?) remote, proprietary model There is almost no harm in a local, open model. Conversely, a remote, proprietary model should always require opting in with clear disclaimers. It needs to be proportional.

What do you mean by "open"?

Open weights, or open training data? These are very different things.

Re: No AI* Here – A Response to Mozilla's Next Chapter

#138

Post by [deleted] »

_heimdall wrote: post #77
kbelder wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's like using your turn signal even when you know there's nobody around you. Politeness is a habit you don't want to break.

That's an interesting example to use. I only use turn signals when there are other cars around that would need the indication. I don't view a turn signal as politeness, its a safety tool to let others know what I'm about to. I do also find that only using a turn signal when others are around is a good reinforcement to always be aware of my surroundings. I feel like a jerk when I don't use one and realize there was so…

[deleted]

Re: No AI* Here – A Response to Mozilla's Next Chapter

#139

Post by andai »

tdeck wrote: post #95
inkysigma wrote: post #32

> Large language models are something else entirely*. They are black boxes. You cannot audit them. You cannot truly understand what they do with your data. You cannot verify their behaviour. And Mozilla wants to put them at the heart of the browser and that doesn't sit well. Am I being overly critical here or is this kind of a silly position to have right after talking about how neural machine translation is okay? Ma…

Aside: Does anyone actually use summarization features? I've never once been tempted to "summarize" because when I read something I either want to read the entire thing, or look for something specific. Things I want summarized, like academic papers, already have an abstract or a synopsis.

Yeah, basically every 15 minute YouTube video, because the amount of actual content I care about is usually 1-2 sentences, and usually ends up being the first sentence of an LLM summary of the transcript.

If something has actual substance I'll watch the whole thing, but that's maybe 10% of videos I find in experience.

Re: No AI* Here – A Response to Mozilla's Next Chapter

#140

Post by andai »

user3939382 wrote: post #66
inkysigma wrote: post #32

> Large language models are something else entirely*. They are black boxes. You cannot audit them. You cannot truly understand what they do with your data. You cannot verify their behaviour. And Mozilla wants to put them at the heart of the browser and that doesn't sit well. Am I being overly critical here or is this kind of a silly position to have right after talking about how neural machine translation is okay? Ma…

Firefox should look like Librewolf first of all, Librewolf shouldn’t have to exist. Mozilla’s privacy stuff is marketing bullshit just like Apple. It shouldn’t be doing ANYTHING that isn’t local only unless it’s explicitly opt in or user UI action oriented. The LLM part is absurd bc the entire overton window is in the wrong place.

As a side note, I was like "Isn't WaterFox the FF fork by that wolf guy?"

Then I thought, "Aha! Surely LibreWolf is the one I'm thinking of!"

Turns out no, it's a third one! It's PaleMoon...

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