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Thomas Piketty: 'The reality is the US is losing control of the world'

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Re: Thomas Piketty: 'The reality is the US is losing control of the world'

#131

Post by vdupras »

corimaith wrote: post #128
vdupras wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's why I said "set it on fire". This whole economic speak is just a cover to avoid saying that trade imbalance is a fealty payment to the US. It's ridiculous to say that a country that was previously sending out stuff for free to the US would suddenly have a big existential problem when they suddenly don't have to do it anymore. They will have other problems due to a changing world order, that's for sure, but fig…

>for free to the US would suddenly have a big existential problem No they're not sending it for free, the US dollars and IOUs are real and ultimately translated into maintaining the salaries of millions of factory workers. Thats the whole point of export driven growth. Trying to abstract away the balance sheet as imaginary is not how real economics works. The CCP, the IMF, World Bank, BIS, etc certainly aren't thinki…

That "consumption" is such a difficult thing to do is a preposterous idea, since you can always set things on fire. These theories are all make believe.

I mean, what makes american so special in their ability to consume? An african can watch football on their 54" TV just as well as an american. Just ship this crap there instead of in the US if you're so concerned about consuming it.

It's trade imbalance! You ship stuff, and the IOUs you get in return are never claimed. It's no better than shipping stuff in Africa and getting Zimbabwean money in return. Everyone knows that it can't be claimed for anything tangible, except from other countries who also owe fealty to the US and are forced to give this currency value. If everyone "asked" for something in return of those IOUs from the US itself, they'd get nothing of tangible value in return. These IOUs only have value insofar as the US is the world police.

Re: Thomas Piketty: 'The reality is the US is losing control of the world'

#132

Post by jnmandal »

alchemist1e9 wrote: post #64
jnmandal wrote: post #19

Without entering (and winning) some kind of major conflict, this was always going to happen. Two things are important to think about. 1. Power should be measured in relative terms not absolute. (For a good treatise on this, read Paul Kennedy's Rise and Fall of the Great Powers ). The US would have to be keeping up with China, India, and rest of world to maintain its previous pole position. 2. Great nations/empires ge…

Demographic stagnation? compared to who? everything is relative and I don’t think US demographics has it at a disadvantage over EU, China, Japan, South Korea, does it? So then who is left to take seriously as a competitor?

Compared to itself. Same phenomenon as in Japan. Rising powers almost never have this issue.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_tsunami

Re: Thomas Piketty: 'The reality is the US is losing control of the world'

#133

Post by rchaud »

jnmandal wrote: post #19

Without entering (and winning) some kind of major conflict, this was always going to happen. Two things are important to think about. 1. Power should be measured in relative terms not absolute. (For a good treatise on this, read Paul Kennedy's Rise and Fall of the Great Powers ). The US would have to be keeping up with China, India, and rest of world to maintain its previous pole position. 2. Great nations/empires ge…

There is an unspoken alternative for dealing with being out-populated by rival states. That is to reduce their populations through sanctions, blockades, starvation and outright war. These methods have been used by the Soviet Union in Ukraine, Germany/USSR in Poland, Imperial Japan in China, Belgium in the Congo. It continues to happen today, most openly in Palestine.

Re: Thomas Piketty: 'The reality is the US is losing control of the world'

#135

Post by trymas »

rayiner wrote: post #107
5upplied_demand wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> started trying to convince voters on their own merit I'm not sure this is true anymore given the splitting of media and news sources. When everyone watched the same 3 news programs it was easier to speak to those people. It is very hard to penetrate the "other sides" messaging platforms. > instead of simply trash-talking their opponents This was the President's entire election platform (twice). > we could actually…

Trump has a far-reaching policy stance. His thesis is that American success is due to Americans and what is distinctive about them, and our engagement with foreigners on the present terms is not good for America. That has implications for everything from immigration policy, to trade policy, military positions, to how to teach kids in schools. Closing the border, deporting all illegal immigrants, screening legal immig…

> Trump has a far-reaching policy stance. His thesis is that American success is due to Americans and what is distinctive about them, and our engagement with foreigners on the present terms is not good for America.

When he says success or about “you gonna be so rich you’re not gonna believe it” - he talks about himself and his billionaire buddies not you. His only policy stance is to surround himself with yes-men and enrich himself through blatant open corruption. Anything is for sale: crimes, pardons, citizenships, you name it - directly contradicting your thesis.

Also I truly believe he hates half of Americans because of wrong-think. But he will deal with them after he deals with brown people.

> Closing the border, deporting all illegal immigrants

Lets deport farmers, construction employers and business owners who “import” such workforce to essentially slave for them.

How such employers are not deeply scrutinised by public and politicians - I will never understand.

> abandoning unfounded foreign policy commitments

Abandon Ukraine, but financing Israel, Argentina, attempt truly unfounded war against Venezuela (reasons change every other day and contradict other policies like pardoning Hernandez on drug trafficking but threatening Maduro with war for same reason in the same week).

> using tariffs as a tool of trade policy

Sure if it’s deliberate, calculated and strategic. China laughs at your soy bean farmers. Coffee exporters give zero damns about your tarrifs. Canadians laugh at you when you’ll wait 30 years to grow your lumber. And on top of all of it - policy is so chaotic (who said men are not emotional?) - no actual long term commitment from industries will happen.

Also more points how his views are contradictory from my previous comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46158110

Re: Thomas Piketty: 'The reality is the US is losing control of the world'

#136

Post by watwut »

tmountain wrote: post #95
watwut wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How are they NOT fascists? They match pretty much any definition of that word. It is easy to know what is implied. Issue is emotional - people do not want to admit that yes, these are fascists.

Fascism is historically loaded and collapses debate. It's a binary label. Speaking in absolutes makes it harder to have productive conversations.

It is no more historically loaded them any other name for a movement or a political philosophy. The debate collapses because people refuse to name things what they actually are. Not just with refusal to engage with the word fascism. There is this persistent tendency to euphemism away everything going on the right, to sane wash, to make it sounds nicer.

> Speaking in absolutes makes it harder to have productive conversations.

We lack productive conversations due to pressure to not call things what they are. The problem is not that fascism is loaded word. The problem is that when we use it, it becomes harder to pretend and equally blame imaginary both sides.

Re: Thomas Piketty: 'The reality is the US is losing control of the world'

#137

Post by lloda »

pfdietz wrote: post #6
mrweasel wrote: post #4

Largely the US isn't losing control, it's giving it up willingly. For what reason, no one knows yet.

It's because it's not worth the expense. Vanity is a hell of a drug, but it has its limits.

The US military budget hasn't been reduced and the adventurism is going on as strong as ever, so that doesn't seem to be the reason.

Re: Thomas Piketty: 'The reality is the US is losing control of the world'

#138

Post by justin66 »

mattmaroon wrote: post #50
pfdietz wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s not that it’s not worth the expense, it’s that we’re unable to continue funding global peace and prosperity ourselves. And we shouldn’t have to. That's just explaining why it's not worth the expense.

Well, it’s worth it, we just can’t.

You've done the arithmetic on that, have you?

Re: Thomas Piketty: 'The reality is the US is losing control of the world'

#139

Post by snowfield »

daft_pink wrote: post #130

Reality is that the US doesn’t want control of the world. Why do we want the blame for the world’s problems. Let the world take care of their own problems.

Because your national deficit is 70% of your gdp you kinda have to

Re: Thomas Piketty: 'The reality is the US is losing control of the world'

#140

Post by corimaith »

vdupras wrote: post #131
corimaith wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>for free to the US would suddenly have a big existential problem No they're not sending it for free, the US dollars and IOUs are real and ultimately translated into maintaining the salaries of millions of factory workers. Thats the whole point of export driven growth. Trying to abstract away the balance sheet as imaginary is not how real economics works. The CCP, the IMF, World Bank, BIS, etc certainly aren't thinki…

That "consumption" is such a difficult thing to do is a preposterous idea, since you can always set things on fire. These theories are all make believe. I mean, what makes american so special in their ability to consume? An african can watch football on their 54" TV just as well as an american. Just ship this crap there instead of in the US if you're so concerned about consuming it. It's trade imbalance! You ship stu…

>That "consumption" is such a difficult thing to do is a preposterous idea, since you can always set things on fire. These theories are all make believe.

Well if you believe so you can go present your findings to policymakers or the CCP rather than in internet forum comments. They would be VERY interested to know what revolutionary insights you have that hundreds of economists are unable to solve.

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