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Apple Maps claims it's 29,905 miles away

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Re: Apple Maps claims it's 29,905 miles away

#131

Post by rob74 »

DonHopkins wrote: post #73
raverbashing wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It probably doesn't do dead reckoning even in tunnels And maybe the system sucks to get the GPS almanac if badly desynced

TomTom's have for at least 15 years or so. They have accelerometers to measure the motion when cut off from the GPS satellites. I worked there, knew the guy who developed it, and saw him give a presentation about it.

That's cool... so I guess this works something along the ways of "calculate the speed via GPS before entering the tunnel, and then try to update this speed using the data from the accelerometer while in the tunnel"? Because as long a the car is moving at constant speed in a straight line, the accelerometer shouldn't register anything...

Re: Apple Maps claims it's 29,905 miles away

#132

Post by tacker2000 »

jwr wrote: post #59
monerozcash wrote: post #21

While we're on the subject of maps-related bugs, I was recently borrowing a new Tesla Model Y and took it on a RORO ferry. After the crossing, the car’s GPS was convinced I was still at the port where I had departed from. I restarted it a couple of times, but nothing. I drove off using Waze on my phone instead of the car's navigation. The map on the car kept moving relative to the direction I was driving, so the navi…

> On a vaguely related note, driving 3000 kilometers through Europe in an electric car was surprisingly nice. Having done a number of multiple-thousand km trips in Europe in an EV (not a Tesla, nobody buys those anymore) — it's amusing how non-EV muggles think this is somehow an ordeal. It's just fine! There are drawbacks: you do have to use your brain and plan ahead more than you do when burning dinosaurs. But I fou…

What is a non EV-muggle?

Re: Apple Maps claims it's 29,905 miles away

#133

Post by tim333 »

UebVar wrote: post #60
theamk wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's no excuse for disbelieving GPS for extended periods of time. Google Maps gets it right: it tried to keep you on road, but only for a few tens of seconds. After that, if you are in the middle of uncharted territory, it'll show the marker there. (This is probably because Google Maps can be used for walking/biking too)

>(This is probably because Google Maps can be used for walking/biking too) Please don't do that. The map is simply not good enough and does not have enough context (road quality, terrain, trail difficulty) for anything but very causal activity. Even then I highly recommend to use a proper map, electronic or paper.

It depends what you are doing but for hill walking in Italy I found the footpathapp.com app good. There are no decent paper maps in the area I go and Google maps are also rubbish for local paths but the app kind of draws in paths based on satellite images I think and you can draw on it to mark the ones you've been on.

Re: Apple Maps claims it's 29,905 miles away

#134

Post by lugao »

lupire wrote: post #62
lugao wrote: post #13

[flagged]

Google "Dan Piponi", then sit down and think about what you've done.

My bad. My intention was not to come across as snarky or aggressive.

Dan Piponi, in his post, called for scale questions in interviews, suggesting that whoever worked on the feature at Apple would not have been hired if they had been asked those types of questions.

I found that position non-constructive and wanted to counter it by mentioning that fractals could hint at why the length was so large.

It is hard to predict how others will read my comment beforehand, and I apologize for not meeting the friendliness bar here on Hacker News.

Re: Apple Maps claims it's 29,905 miles away

#135

Post by lugao »

I made a comment earlier that was rightly flagged for its tone, and I would like to restate the technical point more constructively.

The post author, Dan Piponi, clearly knows about fractals, but his post raises the question of whether asking Fermi questions in interviews is actually effective. I am skeptical that such questions would have prevented this type of bug.

I suspect the issue stems from small measurement imprecisions accruing over long distances, which is—in my view—tied to the fractal nature of roads traversing natural landscapes.

However, as others have pointed out, it may also be tied to road closures: if closed segments are set to a higher length internally (to discourage routing), these values might be getting summed up blindly over longer distances.

None of these issues would have been prevented by being good at estimating quantities alone.

Apologies again for the unconstructive tone of my previous comment.

Re: Apple Maps claims it's 29,905 miles away

#136

Post by Lucasoato »

lugao wrote: post #135

I made a comment earlier that was rightly flagged for its tone, and I would like to restate the technical point more constructively. The post author, Dan Piponi, clearly knows about fractals, but his post raises the question of whether asking Fermi questions in interviews is actually effective. I am skeptical that such questions would have prevented this type of bug. I suspect the issue stems from small measurement i…

A pure spirit is required to admit your own mistake. Don’t be let down by an error, never lose the opportunity to fix it. May this be of example to everyone to keep improving this already wonderful but not perfect community.

Re: Apple Maps claims it's 29,905 miles away

#137

Post by DANmode »

jwr wrote: post #84
SoftTalker wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

No need to get agitated. Some people enjoy sitting in the car for multiple hours, some people don't. I found it changed for me as I got older. However, about those 20 minutes — this, again, is a misconception. Stop at a busy rest area or a gas station and actually start your stopwatch. If you are a single male, it might take you shorter. If you are with a family, 20 minutes is pretty much the minimum.

Really depends on the air quality inside (and indeed outside) the car.

Re: Apple Maps claims it's 29,905 miles away

#138

Post by netsharc »

rob74 wrote: post #131
DonHopkins wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TomTom's have for at least 15 years or so. They have accelerometers to measure the motion when cut off from the GPS satellites. I worked there, knew the guy who developed it, and saw him give a presentation about it.

That's cool... so I guess this works something along the ways of "calculate the speed via GPS before entering the tunnel, and then try to update this speed using the data from the accelerometer while in the tunnel"? Because as long a the car is moving at constant speed in a straight line, the accelerometer shouldn't register anything...

But tunnels that go up or downhill (or a mixture) would confuse the accelerometer.. well I guess they'll have the road gradient data.

I drove in tunnel where the asphalt had undulations today, I'd like to see them try to figure that out!

Re: Apple Maps claims it's 29,905 miles away

#139

Post by dzhiurgis »

jwr wrote: post #59
monerozcash wrote: post #21

While we're on the subject of maps-related bugs, I was recently borrowing a new Tesla Model Y and took it on a RORO ferry. After the crossing, the car’s GPS was convinced I was still at the port where I had departed from. I restarted it a couple of times, but nothing. I drove off using Waze on my phone instead of the car's navigation. The map on the car kept moving relative to the direction I was driving, so the navi…

> On a vaguely related note, driving 3000 kilometers through Europe in an electric car was surprisingly nice. Having done a number of multiple-thousand km trips in Europe in an EV (not a Tesla, nobody buys those anymore) — it's amusing how non-EV muggles think this is somehow an ordeal. It's just fine! There are drawbacks: you do have to use your brain and plan ahead more than you do when burning dinosaurs. But I fou…

> draws swastikas to emphasize anti-fascism

> breaks windows

> sets cars on fires

>> nobody buys those anymore

surprised pikachu

Re: Apple Maps claims it's 29,905 miles away

#140

Post by rendaw »

mmooss wrote: post #79

Tangentially, why won't computerized maps - e.g., Apple Maps, Google, etc. - show a scale? Generally they'll show one as you pinch/zoom, but it disappears when you release your fingers. Sometimes I just want to eyeball distances, and not plug in addresses and request routes for everything. I know not everyone always wants it, but a scale is a fundamental feature of mapping! Scale almost defines mapping. Edit: One rea…

I thought it'd be cool if the scale were shown by some channel, like coloring roads (pink at neighborhood scale, blue, green as you zoom out) so you could intuit the scale at a glance.

With map simplification and symbolic markers (roads are the same thickness at multiple scales) it can be really hard to figure out distances. I was once going to a less populated area, based on my local intuition I thought the distance between two locations was a maybe 30m walk max if I missed the bus, but it turned out it was a 3h walk.

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