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Nokia N900 Necromancy

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Re: Nokia N900 Necromancy

#131

Post by spankibalt »

Nextgrid wrote: post #89
gspr wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's what I don't get: why can't we have a modern one? It doesn't need to blow flagship smartphones out of the water. It doesn't even need to have a GSM baseband – I'd rather just connect through my "normal" smartphone than deal with all the complications of having a whole extra computer in there. Surely this is getting close to realizable by hobbyists or a niche company?

This is absolutely doable by a niche company. The problem is that you need to run this as a business . What plagues every free/open/libre project is that they're not run as a business; so they get distracted in all different directions trying to cater to ideals about free/libre licensing and so on, and end up missing the big picture. You need to operate this as a business first , with the freedom part being a nice bo…

> "You need to operate this as a business first, [...] Make a competitive product."

Not only that, but you should not get suckered down into overcomplicating things by chasing complex novelties, e. g. integrated slider- or clamshell-implemented keyboards, silly and outdated form factors (clamshell UMPCs, OQO already showed the way), etc.

You want a good, small keyboard? Design it to be attachable. This is possible in a variety of ways and can be adapted to your manufacturing expertise. It also leaves open third-party hardware support for your device. Not to mention maintainability/repairability. It's utterly puzzling to me how many hardware start-ups already fuck up the basics.

And never forget: In a satured market, even catering to a niche, means you should go for a somewhat unique feature set. How many ultramobile devices are out there that are truly accessible and usable? That goes beyond just safety or repairability.

OLED screen? I'd rather prefer something PWM-free. Precision control? Digitizer/stylus support. You don't even need to house the stylus in the device. But it would be very useful to have at least one. Audio? Yeah, 3.5 mm is a must. Dedicated, easy-access mSD (Express) card slot? Yes, please. Exchangeable batteries? Good idea, as long as it's a standard design in good supply. Kill switches. Maybe a modular camera set up like those Chinese flagships that are otherwise rather useless. Full-feature connectivity (1-2 x USB 4). Etc.

Re: Nokia N900 Necromancy

#132

Post by carlosjobim »

larodi wrote: post #77
sollewitt wrote: post #41

The N900 was my peak “mobile computing is awesome” device. I went to see District 9 in the cinema in Helsinki. Uh oh, the alien parts are only subtitled in Finnish and Swedish and my Finnish is not up to that. I installed a BitTorrent client, found the release on Pirate Bay, successfully torrented just the subtitle file, and used an editor to read the subtitles for scenes with a lot of alien. The N9 had much better U…

It is amazing Nokia missed on the mobile revolution as n900 predated iPhone if I remember correctly. But Nokia did one massive mistake and it was to bet on Linux for this device. Even when they already had lot of Symbian experience, which also was week though when it came to user apps. The modified BSD on the first iPhones was simply blazingly fast.

Linux was not a mistake on these devices. And I say that as the foremost hater of open source and Linux you can find around here. In fact, the N9 Linux phone was a huge success among everyday people in several countries. Farmers, teenagers, everybody got an N9. You couldn't go to any small party without at least two people having the N9 phone. Everybody loved them. It was in no way a hacker device for nerds.

What killed these Linux phones was Microsoft doing a hostile takeover of Nokia. The owners of Nokia felt they couldn't compete with Apple's iPhone and decided to scuttle their business and transfer out as much money as possible to their own offshore accounts in the Pacific before the company going belly up. I think they could have competed if they weren't such cowards.

Re: Nokia N900 Necromancy

#134

Post by gbil »

daveoc64 wrote: post #95
gbil wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on the country and provider but is sooner than later in Europe and I hate it that 2G is going away since all my old devices are not going to work again… https://onomondo.com/blog/2g-3g-sunset-2/

That article is full of made up slop - at least in terms of Europe. Most of the dates stated are just plain wrong. The UK dates are completely wrong - by 5 years in most cases. All of the UK's 2G networks are still running, and the last won't be switched off until at least 2030.

The article is from 2022 and is good enough summary. Specifics for sure can vary in between but that is why you are more than able to do an individual search.

Re: Nokia N900 Necromancy

#135

Post by jack_tripper »

sollewitt wrote: post #41

The N900 was my peak “mobile computing is awesome” device. I went to see District 9 in the cinema in Helsinki. Uh oh, the alien parts are only subtitled in Finnish and Swedish and my Finnish is not up to that. I installed a BitTorrent client, found the release on Pirate Bay, successfully torrented just the subtitle file, and used an editor to read the subtitles for scenes with a lot of alien. The N9 had much better U…

>I installed a BitTorrent client, found the release on Pirate Bay, successfully torrented just the subtitle file, and used an editor to read the subtitles for scenes with a lot of alien.

That's probably what I would do but that's also why the iphone beat the crap out of Nokia, because that example of what you did with the N900 is a 1% of 1% of what users would use their phones for back then, and Steve Jobs knew it so he won consumers over with a pleasant and simple UX that lacked features instead of piling on Power User features that nobody would use.

You're not gonna sell too many phone if your target userbase is those who know what BitTorrent is and how to use it on their Linux phone.

Such Power User focused niche devices are only financially viable for small companies to develop and sell, but you can't keep a company the size of Nokia in business by only catering to Linux phone enthusiasts.

Their demise was inevitable at that point no matter what they did.

Re: Nokia N900 Necromancy

#136

Post by panick21_ »

Man I really wanted the N900 so badly, my first real smartphone. But I decided to skip N900, because I was sure that the N901 (or whatever) was going to be insane good and I wanted to not spend the money yet.

Sadly, that day never came ...

Re: Nokia N900 Necromancy

#137

Post by yaky »

cl3misch wrote: post #91
seba_dos1 wrote: post #6

Why go through that device-breaking battery dance when you can still get a BL-5J battery pretty much everywhere? Booting from an SD card, while possible, is rather impractical on N900 because it gets disconnected whenever you open the back cover. The N900 that lays next to me right now still works as a phone. I have to replace its screen though, as recently it took some damage in my pocket and got a small crack in it…

I think OP wants it to be an always-on device. The last sentence in the post is > Nokia N900 enjoying its new life as an online radio device using Open Media Player. But I agree with your sentiment. Using supercaps seems overengineered to me if the device is connected anyway.

It can't be used in a mobile way much anymore, with all 3G and many 2G shut down in the US.

The caps / supercaps are necessary to provide enough current during boot or more resource-intensive tasks.

Re: Nokia N900 Necromancy

#138

Post by imp0cat »

carlosjobim wrote: post #130
mrmlz wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I loved my N9. But i'm somewhat hesitant on preordering that one. I need wireless charging.. And i still dont really get if Android-apps actually work or not, i.e. swedish Bank-Id/Swish etc.

You can have another device for your banking.

I think this is the way. The Jolla device does have some Android compatibility layers, but I am sure banking apps will not like that.

Re: Nokia N900 Necromancy

#139

Post by ezst »

jillesvangurp wrote: post #66

I still have one in a drawer from when I worked at Nokia around 2009. Great device. I also had the N800 before that. What made them interesting wasn't the hardware, though the full keyboard on the N900 was useful but the fact that it was Linux phone based on Debian complete with the ability to apt-get install whatever the hell you wanted. Including compilers, developer tools, openssh, and whatever you could think of.…

> Nokia did not understand what it had

Like any other large company, Nokia needed time to adjust its strategy, whether it would have happened or not we will never know, because Nokia got Trojan horsed by Microsoft killing any plausible competition to windows phone, and the whole phone division as a result. I still find it incredible that it happened just like that.

Re: Nokia N900 Necromancy

#140

Post by ezst »

rcarmo wrote: post #74

Pretty impressive. I have one of those (or related) around, might give this a go even if Maemo always ran like molasses.

Did it? I mean, even when you compare it to its contemporary devices (it took a while for Android to get close to smooth animations and fluid navigation, even without the type of true compositing and multitasking the n900 had).
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