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Going Through Snowden Documents, Part 1

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Re: Going Through Snowden Documents, Part 1

#131

Post by nateglims »

sunaookami wrote: post #60

This comment section is strange, a lot of people trying to discredit Snowden, saying he shouldn't have released the files, should be in prison, etc. 12 years ago this was HUGE news and had a major impact on the internet and everyone thanked Snowden for these documents! I certainly am thankful. Disappointed in my country that they literally said that "spying between friends is a no-go" but then did nothing and intimid…

I'm sympathetic to snowden and think he should just be pardoned, but in retrospect was this actually huge news? Other than reaffirming that telcos were a weak link and that we should encrypt everything, what was a major revelation?

I don't think americans broadly care if we are spying on any of the countries listed in part 1 or 2 of this. Mexico, Brazil, Venezuela, Bolivia and China?

Re: Going Through Snowden Documents, Part 1

#132

Post by ginush »

DennisP wrote: post #117
ginush wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it doesn't. Think about it. Some computer somewhere that is involved in bulk interception happens to record your browser connecting to, say, the Hacker News website, at various dates and times. This is stored in a dataset. No-one ever views these connection records. No-one ever writes a query for the dataset that returns these connection records. These connection records are automatically deleted after the retenti…

So your claim is that this massive data collection, done at massive public expense, is not used at all? That seems unlikely. And given how good computers are at natural language processing these days, the data is more usable than ever.

Of course it is used. But unless you're a target of interest to intelligence analysts, the metadata generated by your online activities will be of no interest whatsoever. It won't even be looked at.

Re: Going Through Snowden Documents, Part 1

#133

Post by bdamm »

squigz wrote: post #59
jazzyjackson wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

:) I've long held that a useful counterintelligence strategy is to weave real operations into fictional films, such that if someone catches on and tries to tell people about it, the response is simply "you schizophrenic - that's the plot of Die Hard 4!" Slightly less conspiratorial version is that agents and clerks with knowledge of operations get drunk at the same bars as Hollywood script writers

It's not a conspiracy - this is why Stargate exists!

Can you explain the link?

Re: Going Through Snowden Documents, Part 1

#134

Post by Loughla »

OkayPhysicist wrote: post #123
alphazard wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"User" generated content on the internet is mostly bots, HN included. Opinions that seem too radical or stupid to be believed are often bots, or NPC humans repeating bot content that they read somewhere else.

Too radical is in the eyes of the beholder. Most of the most intelligent people I know, people who rather carefully analyze their own beliefs, tend to have at least a few things that they are extremely outside the Overton window on. It's not particularly hard to see why: if you apply even a surface-level analysis of the world around you, a lot of stuff is "we all believe X because we've always done X that way". On th…

What's the phrase? Think about how stupid the average person is, and then remember that half of everyone is stupider than that.

Re: Going Through Snowden Documents, Part 1

#135

Post by godelski »

nateglims wrote: post #131
sunaookami wrote: post #60

This comment section is strange, a lot of people trying to discredit Snowden, saying he shouldn't have released the files, should be in prison, etc. 12 years ago this was HUGE news and had a major impact on the internet and everyone thanked Snowden for these documents! I certainly am thankful. Disappointed in my country that they literally said that "spying between friends is a no-go" but then did nothing and intimid…

I'm sympathetic to snowden and think he should just be pardoned, but in retrospect was this actually huge news? Other than reaffirming that telcos were a weak link and that we should encrypt everything, what was a major revelation? I don't think americans broadly care if we are spying on any of the countries listed in part 1 or 2 of this. Mexico, Brazil, Venezuela, Bolivia and China?

  >  in retrospect was this actually huge news?
Yes

Re: Going Through Snowden Documents, Part 1

#136

Post by apical_dendrite »

text0404 wrote: post #70
apical_dendrite wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as US persons are concerned, jeffbee is correct that the Snowden leaks are not compatible with the conspiratorial worldview represented by Enemy of the State or the X-Files. The Snowden docs showed things like if two people outside the US were discussing US politics and they mentioned Obama, then the name "Obama" would be redacted because he was a US person. The redaction of US personal info was not perfect bu…

That is absolutely not what the Snowden docs showed. Would highly recommend familiarizing yourself at least a little bit with a major part of history: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010s_global_surveillance_disc... > Barton Gellman, a Pulitzer Prize–winning journalist who led The Washington Post's coverage of Snowden's disclosures, summarized the leaks as follows: > Taken together, the revelations have brought to lig…

Please actually read what I wrote. You are responding to something that I did not write.

I did not claim that there wasn't "massive, unchecked surveillance". The specific claim that I made was that the conspiracy-theory films of the 1990s were based on the idea of unchecked surveillance of US citizens that was then used for purposes such as targeting and murder of US citizens in the United States.

There was nothing in the Snowden documents that suggested there were rogue operators going out and murdering Americans. In fact, when it came to Americans specifically, there was minimization, and attempts to abide by FISA, none of which ever featured in 1990s-era conspiracy films. I very specifically spoke about minimization as regards Americans, not globally.

Re: Going Through Snowden Documents, Part 1

#137

Post by dylan604 »

ProllyInfamous wrote: post #118
dylan604 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> government attempts at management of conspiracy theorists. The Mel Gibson movie Conspiracy Theory goes into a version of this. In the conspiracy world, there's the trope on Merlin's magic wand was made from the wood of a holly tree and was used to cause confusion and mind control type of spells.

Thanks for tonight's movie recommendation (Braveheart was sick, I'll give Mel another chance! ). >Merlin's holly wand The More You Know™ [0] [0] https://www.perplexity.ai/search/what-is-the-significance-of...

Oh please don’t think I was suggesting it. It’s just what the movie was about. It’s. It on me if it’s not your cup of tea. Brave heart it isn’t.

Re: Going Through Snowden Documents, Part 1

#138

Post by timschmidt »

opo wrote: post #103
timschmidt wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't forget "Rebuilding America's Defenses" a paper published by Project for the New American Century, a think tank who's founding statement of principles was signed by 25 individuals, 10 of whom went on to serve in the George W. Bush administration, which calls for "A New Pearl Harbor": https://www.visibility911.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/reb...

> ...which calls for "A New Pearl Harbor": Reading through your link, I don't see how one can say it "calls for a "A New Pearl Harbor": >...Further, the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event – like a new Pearl Harbor. Domestic politics and industrial policy will shape the pace and content of transformation as much a…

> Further, the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event – like a new Pearl Harbor.

You may not see this as calling for a new Pearl Harbor, but it's incredibly conspicuous considering that it's exactly what an administration made of PNAC alums got, predicted a year in advance, via nationals of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safari_Club states with connections to intelligence services: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alleged_Saudi_role_in_the_Sept...

Re: Going Through Snowden Documents, Part 1

#139

Post by alex1138 »

SamDc73 wrote: post #68
psunavy03 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, he violated a trust given to him, he deserves to be in jail, and if he had an ounce of moral character he'd come back and face trial like a man. Unlike the movies there aren't secret death squads out to get him, just a courtroom where he can face the consequences of his actions like an adult. Instead, he's hiding out playing the victim in a country that's actively genociding Ukrainians to a degree beyond anything…

He violated the trust of whom? The government who was violating the trust of the American People? And as for Russia, he didn’t flee there by choice; he got stranded because the U.S. government revoked his passport mid-transit, He was there for a transit and hit final destination was Ecuador ...

What you said takes 5 minutes to research, too. But the party line by idiots and currently in-the-CIA people like approved mouthpiece Bustamante say "Well, he fled to Russia"

Re: Going Through Snowden Documents, Part 1

#140

Post by squigz »

bdamm wrote: post #133
squigz wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a conspiracy - this is why Stargate exists!

Can you explain the link?

It's the plot of an episode of SG-1 [1]

A TV show comes out that is practically the Stargate program and instead of stopping its production, the Air Force lets it go on as a cover in case the Stargate program has a leak

https://stargate.fandom.com/wiki/Wormhole_X-Treme!_(episode)

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