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In New York City, congestion pricing leads to marked drop in pollution

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Re: In New York City, congestion pricing leads to marked drop in pollution

#131
post #17

Not surprising. The real question is how do we measure the opportunity cost of these measures? Is it a net gain? You could, at the extreme, ban all motor vehicles but the opportunity cost would outweigh the benefits.

Since this is generating revenue for NYC, you can't consider whether this tax is good or bad in a vacuum though. The alternatives are a different tax with its own effects, or more debt, or less spending. (In this case, the revenue goes to the MTA.) Any opportunity costs due to less traffic are at least partially offset by opportunity costs you aren't having to pay somewhere else.

Re: In New York City, congestion pricing leads to marked drop in pollution

#132
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that true for slower moving vehicles? I can't imagine there's a lot of brake dust generated by stopping & starting in the 0-10 mph range.

Tires and brakes. With EV's this gets relatively worse because they are heavier.

https://electrek.co/2025/05/27/another-way-electric-cars-cle...

TLDR regenerative braking reduces this significantly, nut getting the raw numbers is always fraught with today's horrific AI-addled search engines.

Also seems like a wonderful opportunity for the materials science people to print money coming up with better brake materials here. And if anyone here who can say "clean coal" with a straight face disagrees, point and laugh at them.

Edit: Uh Oh! Facts...

Re: In New York City, congestion pricing leads to marked drop in pollution

#134
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The question becomes how critical is X and is there a close alternative. In this case I'd say for 95% of people yes driving is easily substituted by NYC's public transit options.

Im not sure this fits, they saw a much larger drop (18%) in heavy duty trucks entering the city, and a smaller drop (9%) in passenger cars. I am not sure the public transit options are close alternatives for heavy duty trucks.

I suspect that this is due to the elimination of toll shopping/avoidance. Per [0] and [1], the only way to avoid a toll entirely is to drive from the West Side Highway or FDR Drive to the Brooklyn Bridge, but commercial vehicles are prohibited on FDR Drive and the Brooklyn Bridge has weight restrictions [2], so heavy trucks don't have a legal way to dodge the tolls anymore.

If you need to reach Long Island, the incentive to avoid the (tolled) Throgs Neck, Whitestone, Verrazzano, and RFK bridges are gone; now you're paying for the privilege of sitting in Manhattan traffic.

[0]: https://congestionreliefzone.mta.info/faqs

[1]: https://www.cbsnews.com/newyork/news/nyc-congestion-pricing-...

[2]: https://www.nyc.gov/html/dot/html/motorist/parkway-restricti...

Re: In New York City, congestion pricing leads to marked drop in pollution

#135
post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because a lot if EV buyers are interested in the environmental impact of their purchase?

I say this as someone who owns an electric scooter and whose next car will be an EV—the sales pitch for EVs right now is basically pay more (especially now that the tax credit is gone) to have a worse time and maybe eventually claw some of it back over the lifetime of the car in fuel savings. The environmental impact is the pro in the pro con list. So if that doesn't pan out, or doesn't pan out enough it's going to b…

Watch out for electricians who try to rip off new EV owners. Make sure you get a few estimates. When we added a charger, bids were $2000, $2000, and $500.

Re: In New York City, congestion pricing leads to marked drop in pollution

#136

How does NYC congestion pricing deal with disparate impacts? Real question, I don't live near NYC

https://portal.311.nyc.gov/article/?kanumber=KA-03612

> Some drivers can apply for Low-Income Discount or Low-Income Tax Credit for Residents.

> A 50% discount is available for low-income vehicle owners enrolled in the Low-Income Discount Plan (LIDP). This discount begins after the first 10 trips in a calendar month and applies to all peak period trips after that for the remainder of the calendar month.

The revenue also goes towards public transit, and the congestion charge applies mainly to the wealthiest part of the wealthiest borough.

Re: In New York City, congestion pricing leads to marked drop in pollution

#137
post #95
post #14

To head off the almost inevitable recapitulation of yesterday's parade of misinformed complaints by teenage libertarians, please actually read the paper before commenting. The paper shows there was no significant reduction in entries to the congestion charge zone by cars, vans, and light trucks. And you can confirm this conclusion is consistent with their source data using their github repo. The reduction in pollutio…

It's good to point this out but I don't think the snarkiness at the beginning is necessary to get your point across.

the snark made me read the comment, I'll admit it

Re: In New York City, congestion pricing leads to marked drop in pollution

#138
post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because a lot if EV buyers are interested in the environmental impact of their purchase?

I say this as someone who owns an electric scooter and whose next car will be an EV—the sales pitch for EVs right now is basically pay more (especially now that the tax credit is gone) to have a worse time and maybe eventually claw some of it back over the lifetime of the car in fuel savings. The environmental impact is the pro in the pro con list. So if that doesn't pan out, or doesn't pan out enough it's going to b…

> to have a worse time

I have a much better time in my EV than my ICE car but to each their own.

Re: In New York City, congestion pricing leads to marked drop in pollution

#139
post #2

> Particulates issued from tailpipes can aggravate asthma and heart disease and increase the risk of lung cancer and heart attack. Globally, they are a leading risk factor for premature death. Minor nitpick, but tailpipes aren't the primary source of emissions. The study is about PM2.5[0]. which will chiefly be tires and brake pads. Modern gasoline engines are relatively clean, outside of CO2, though diesel engines s…

How do EVs fare in this regard? Brakes are used significantly less, but the additional weight from the batteries chews through tires faster.

EV's produce 38% less tire & brake dust than ICE vehicles.

https://electrek.co/2025/05/27/another-way-electric-cars-cle...

non-exhaust emissions on an ICE vehicle are roughly 1/3 brake dust, 1/3 tire dust and 1/3 road dust. EV's have almost no impact on road dust, 83% lest brake dust and 20% more tire dust.

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