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NYC congestion pricing cuts air pollution by a fifth in six months

airqualitynews.com

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Re: NYC congestion pricing cuts air pollution by a fifth in six months

#131

Post by rcpt »

dangus wrote: post #79
frankest wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EV self-driving shuttles you can take on demand so nobody needs to keep a car

Or, how about this, connect them together and put them on rails to reduce friction. You could even run them separate from the street with raised platforms for accessibility and sometimes even run them underground. We could call this something like “underway” or “steel beam connect-o-cars”

That's so unbelievably difficult it might as well be impossible. It's easier to teach cars to drive themselves than it is to build transit. Ridiculous I know.

Re: NYC congestion pricing cuts air pollution by a fifth in six months

#132

Post by rcpt »

apparent wrote: post #104
tootie wrote: post #47

It's frustrating how poorly most people understand economics and the distinction between price and cost. Everybody in the world is being asked to blithely accept the massive unpaid costs of motor vehicle usage. This is a tiny step towards recouping some of this costs. Roadways, parking, collisions, pollution, noise have all be costs born by all of us. And in NYC that's a load of non-drivers. We should be adopting all…

> we have millions of miles of free roads. Are you familiar with the gas tax? Vehicle registration fees?

Roads are very expensive. Those taxes are never high enough to pay for the roads.

Re: NYC congestion pricing cuts air pollution by a fifth in six months

#133

Post by rayiner »

uolmir wrote: post #109
rayiner wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, individualized point to point travel is better. I just got back from Tokyo and Taipei, which have transit systems better than any European country. And it was still faster to Uber everywhere.

Everywhere? This is a crazy thing to claim. I was also recently in Japan and I never took a car anywhere. I'm sure there are particular routes that are badly served but come on.

Everywhere. I was staying right next to Tokyo Station, too. I went from a meeting in Roppongi Hills to a bookstore in Jimbocho. Apple Maps says 31 minutes by train and 24 minutes by Uber.

And I was traveling alone this time. Last year when I went with my wife and three kids the differential was even more extreme. I’m convinced public transit is a major reason for the birth rate collapse in east asia.

Re: NYC congestion pricing cuts air pollution by a fifth in six months

#134

Post by rayiner »

amanaplanacanal wrote: post #102
rayiner wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, individualized point to point travel is better. I just got back from Tokyo and Taipei, which have transit systems better than any European country. And it was still faster to Uber everywhere.

Only because most people were taking the train. If everybody was taking a car you would be at a stand still.

Only if you build the city like Tokyo instead of like Dallas. Average commute in Tokyo is 45 minutes to an hour one way: https://nbakki.hatenablog.com/entry/2014/08/05/231455. Average commute time in Dallas is 26 minutes one way: https://dallas.culturemap.com/news/city-life/dallas-suburb-s...

I’m not aware of any transit-oriented city where average commute times are as low in absolute terms as in sprawling, car-dependent American cities. You just don’t like the aesthetics of that approach. I don’t either. But it’s an aesthetic critique at bottom.

Re: NYC congestion pricing cuts air pollution by a fifth in six months

#135

Post by apparent »

rcpt wrote: post #132
apparent wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we have millions of miles of free roads. Are you familiar with the gas tax? Vehicle registration fees?

Roads are very expensive. Those taxes are never high enough to pay for the roads.

I did not say they cover 100% of the roads. I was responding to a comment claiming that roads are free.

Re: NYC congestion pricing cuts air pollution by a fifth in six months

#136

Post by lmm »

Invictus0 wrote: post #123
amanaplanacanal wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You may not realize this, but the roads are also in the red. All transportation is subsidized out of taxes.

You may not realize this, but there are numerous rail systems around the world that are not subsidized and are in fact profitable. See Japan, for instance

Almost all rail in Japan is subsidized, directly and indirectly. Yes the single line that is the Tokaido Shinkansen is immensely profitable; even then, JR Central does not pay market-rate interest on even the portion of the construction debt that was not absorbed by the government.

Re: NYC congestion pricing cuts air pollution by a fifth in six months

#137

Post by lillecarl »

mmooss wrote: post #125
AniseAbyss wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NYC has a better subway system than most Euro cities. Probably because NYC has the advantage of being old before cars became affordable. For a few decades it seemed planners all over the world really had this crazy idea that everyone would just drive around for everything. Just put 10 lane highways straight through your town!

> NYC has the advantage of being old before cars became affordable. Aren't Euro cities generally much older than those in the New World?

NYC was never bombed to rubble and explicitly rebuilt after the American dream that everyone should drive everywhere.

Re: NYC congestion pricing cuts air pollution by a fifth in six months

#138

Post by lmm »

Invictus0 wrote: post #88
jpalawaga wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The quality is not suspect. It is one of the world’s few 24/7 systems, and there are many capital improvements happening constantly. For example, making more stations accessible and improving switching equipment to improve reliability and volume. This comment is typical HN “government bad can do no right” fodder. The MTA is truly a marvel in the service it provides. The only advantage it has is age, which is why it i…

The MTA is billions in the red because it overpays the union workers and fails to commercialize the stations

The MTA does not overpay when you compare to other employers in central NYC. It's an extremely expensive city due to housing policy failures.

As for commercialising the stations, does the MTA try to do so and fail, or are they forbidden from doing so effectively (often by the same people who are pushing the narrative that there is something wrong with the organisation)?

Re: NYC congestion pricing cuts air pollution by a fifth in six months

#139

Post by lmm »

rayiner wrote: post #134
amanaplanacanal wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only because most people were taking the train. If everybody was taking a car you would be at a stand still.

Only if you build the city like Tokyo instead of like Dallas. Average commute in Tokyo is 45 minutes to an hour one way: https://nbakki.hatenablog.com/entry/2014/08/05/231455 . Average commute time in Dallas is 26 minutes one way: https://dallas.culturemap.com/news/city-life/dallas-suburb-s... I’m not aware of any transit-oriented city where average commute times are as low in absolute terms as in sprawling, car-depe…

> Average commute in Tokyo is 45 minutes to an hour one way: https://nbakki.hatenablog.com/entry/2014/08/05/231455. Average commute time in Dallas is 26 minutes one way: https://dallas.culturemap.com/news/city-life/dallas-suburb-s...

People in Tokyo will accept a longer commute for the sake of a better job or housing or both, because the commute is less miserable (and also because employers pay commute costs).

> I’m not aware of any transit-oriented city where average commute times are as low in absolute terms as in sprawling, car-dependent American cities.

Transit-oriented cities provide access to more jobs within a fixed range like 30 minutes even for car commuters. https://www.nature.com/articles/s42949-021-00020-2/figures/4 . People in Dallas having shorter commutes isn't a sign that Dallas is built better, it's a sign that people in Dallas are avoiding switching to otherwise better jobs because it would make their commutes worse.

Re: NYC congestion pricing cuts air pollution by a fifth in six months

#140

Post by lmm »

rayiner wrote: post #91
dangus wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or, how about this, connect them together and put them on rails to reduce friction. You could even run them separate from the street with raised platforms for accessibility and sometimes even run them underground. We could call this something like “underway” or “steel beam connect-o-cars”

No, individualized point to point travel is better. I just got back from Tokyo and Taipei, which have transit systems better than any European country. And it was still faster to Uber everywhere.

It's a tragedy of the commons. For an individual, private car is faster, but the resulting traffic ultimately makes things slower for everyone. Public transit in Tokyo is faster than private cars in car-oriented cities.
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