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Japanese four-cylinder engine is so reliable still in production after 25 years

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Re: Japanese four-cylinder engine is so reliable still in production after 25 years

#131

Post by ErroneousBosh »

Lio wrote: post #17
jacquesm wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The torque steer on those things is unbelievable, they are really unsafe but a lot of fun. I drove one that had 'only' 160 HP according to the owner and it was incredible. Cars like that will get you shrinkwrapped but you will be smiling...

I have a feeling it's one of those things, like owning a Capri 2.8i or one of the really old school 911 Turbos, that is better left to fantasy for me. I love the idea but I'm a pretty rubbish driver and would probably end up getting myself into trouble. ...would be fun though!

Capri 2.8i is a practical classic. You could drive it every day. Convert it to run on LPG, and you could drive it in most city centres, blast right through that Low Emission Zone, wafting out warm carbon dioxide and water vapour and (at least in theory) cleaning up some of the oily sulphurous stink of diesel bus engines.

Porsche 911 Turbo is not just dangerous, it's actively trying to kill you. The engine is at the wrong end so it doesn't handle (if you throw a dart feathers-first at the dart board, it'll try to flip round in the air so the heavy end is at the front), and the turbo lag and very "peaky" cam gives you a throttle response of nothing, nothing, faint whistling, WWWAAAAAAAAH WE'RE BACKWARDS THROUGH THE HEDGE.

Re: Japanese four-cylinder engine is so reliable still in production after 25 years

#132

Post by ErroneousBosh »

coredog64 wrote: post #20
stockresearcher wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Land Rover bought the rights to use an aluminum V8 that GM/Buick developed in 1960 and it remained in production until 2006.

True, but they wore out the casting infrastructure and probably should have stopped in 2001

That's largely a myth told by people with shiny new Coscast engine blocks to sell you.

They run too hot because everyone runs lawnmower-grade 95 octane petrol these days, which contributes more than anything else to liners breaking free especially with the liners being thinner on later (90s onwards) 94mm-piston engines. I do wonder if the switch from thin steel "shim" head gaskets to composite ones allowed the liners to move more?

Anyway they only break liners free completely (the infamous "dropped liner") if you run them absolutely bone dry of water until one piston expands enough to jam in the liner and start hammering it up and down, just before the engine seizes entirely.

It's cheap and easy to get the liners knocked out and the block machined to take "top hat" liners, with a lip around the top that clamps them in place, something like £1800 last time I looked.

Re: Japanese four-cylinder engine is so reliable still in production after 25 years

#133

Post by ErroneousBosh »

leeoniya wrote: post #37

reminds me of the LADA vs BMW meme https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fn...

The annoying thing is the third BMW from the left was the perfect one, with the fourth left a close second.

Re: Japanese four-cylinder engine is so reliable still in production after 25 years

#134

Post by jabl »

throwawaylaptop wrote: post #116
jabl wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's of course possible to design engines to be oil cooled, though water-glycol tends to be preferred due to about twice the specific heat capacity, meaning smaller coolant channels, radiators, and fans are required.

Is it specific heat that we care about, or rate of heat transfer? Specific heat matters a bit, but if you make your coolant take twice the energy to change 1 degree, the same thing happens on the radiator side and you must release twice the heat to cool 1 degree. Rate of heat transfer in general if probably more important.

Well, it gets really complex. Yes, specific heat matters, but as you say so does the heat transfer coefficient. And the viscosity. And is the flow laminar or turbulent? Etc.

There are various figures of merit, such as the Mouromtseff number https://doi.org/10.1109/JRPROC.1942.234654 or https://www.electronics-cooling.com/2006/05/comparing-heat-t... for a quick overview.

Some tables of heat transfer coefficients: https://www.engineersedge.com/heat_transfer/convective_heat_...

But, turns out water is just very very good also when you take these other factors into account. Compared to oil, it has, as mentioned, much higher specific heat, it has higher heat conductivity, it has lower viscosity which means less pumping power and more likely to see turbulent flow which helps with mixing.

Re: Japanese four-cylinder engine is so reliable still in production after 25 years

#135

Post by jabl »

bluGill wrote: post #110
jabl wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's of course possible to design engines to be oil cooled, though water-glycol tends to be preferred due to about twice the specific heat capacity, meaning smaller coolant channels, radiators, and fans are required.

I don't think it occurred to anyone in 1905 that a water/glycol mix might be good. They either used straight water with a warning to drain the engine when you shut down in cold weather so it didn't freeze, or they used oil. My 1939 tractor has instructions to start the engine and then pour water in the radiator when it is below freezing.

Not in 1905, no. I believe water-glycol mixes became widely used in the 1920'ies. But without glycol, water is an even better heat transfer agent. Shame about the freezing thing, though.

Re: Japanese four-cylinder engine is so reliable still in production after 25 years

#136

Post by mouth »

hephaes7us wrote: post #107
1970-01-01 wrote: post #91

"Engine failure" is something everyone thought was a last century problem, yet it's back. Some blame extra thin oils, and some are pointing to cheap parts (ex. plastic manifolds and plastic timing guides). There are now engine lawsuits in 2015-2025 model vehicles from all the big vehicle manufacturers, with new failures clustering in late models. They literally don't make them like they used to.

Intuitively I feel like it's something like the light bulb. For a while, bulbs had to meet efficiency standards. These standards were configured such that they didn't technically exclude incandescent bulbs, however, for an incandescent bulb to comply, it would have to be driven hard and thus comparatively short-lived. (for context, incandescent bulbs last something like 4x as long if you let them be 10% dimmer)

I have 3x 100watt lightbulbs in a single fixture that have been running strong for years. The secret? I keep them dimmed by ~20%. Longevity wasn’t the intent, though, I just like them dimmer and warmer. A pleasant side effect nonetheless.

Re: Japanese four-cylinder engine is so reliable still in production after 25 years

#137

Post by doubled112 »

throwawaylaptop wrote: post #111
olyjohn wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Turbos are the replacement for displacement.

Ok, stick a huge turbo on a 100cc engine and power my 1 ton pickup please. Id like it to feel quick in traffic but also tow a few thousand lbs uphill without really noticing it.

Does it need to last one trip up this hill or thousands of trips?

Re: Japanese four-cylinder engine is so reliable still in production after 25 years

#138

Post by Schiendelman »

1970-01-01 wrote: post #91

"Engine failure" is something everyone thought was a last century problem, yet it's back. Some blame extra thin oils, and some are pointing to cheap parts (ex. plastic manifolds and plastic timing guides). There are now engine lawsuits in 2015-2025 model vehicles from all the big vehicle manufacturers, with new failures clustering in late models. They literally don't make them like they used to.

Engine lawsuits from "all the big vehicle manufacturers" - while I don't like the guy, Teslas don't have engine failure lawsuits.

Re: Japanese four-cylinder engine is so reliable still in production after 25 years

#139

Post by bigbadfeline »

jacquesm wrote: post #16
Lio wrote: post #4

When I was a kid I wanted a classic Mini with a transplanted Honda K-Series engine. It's a big engine for that little car but I'd completely forgotten about them over the years. It's wild that people are still doing this: https://potentialmotorsport.com/ I might have to reserect that dream. :D

The torque steer on those things is unbelievable, they are really unsafe but a lot of fun. I drove one that had 'only' 160 HP according to the owner and it was incredible. Cars like that will get you shrinkwrapped but you will be smiling...

> they are really unsafe but a lot of fun

It's hard to think of a worse combination.

Re: Japanese four-cylinder engine is so reliable still in production after 25 years

#140

Post by bch »

throwawaylaptop wrote: post #115
bch wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a friend who had a Honda (edit: actually, Toyota iirc) for ~15 years that didn’t know it had oil; So when they sold it and was asked how often the oil was changed, the potential buyer was met with a quizzical look. Tires and gasoline and window washer fluid was its maintenance.

I find that a bit hard to believe. Someone in that family knew and took care of it sometimes. The longest I've seen a used car go without an oil change was 40k miles and it was changed when it started making noise instantly on startup. That was basically 90k to 130k. Sure 0 to 40k would go a bit better.. but not 15 years of typical driving. Between carbon blowby, gasoline dilution, oil burning at the rings/cylinder w…

I wouldn't believe it either unless I heard it directly from my earnest friend who learned at that moment:

1) cars have oil

2) said oil should be changed regularly

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