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The "Mad Men" in 4K on HBO Max Debacle

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Re: The "Mad Men" in 4K on HBO Max Debacle

#131

Post by Teever »

> Reframing old shows to fit a new aspect ratio is antithetical to the spirit of media restoration, and cheapens the future of our shared culture. The folks at the studios who insist on hobbling their most classic television shows are really bad at their jobs.

I disgree with this. I'm fine with companies putting out new versions of something that are experimental like this, but I tihnk that they need to both acknowledge that they're experimental and put out versions that are true to the original intent.

Re: The "Mad Men" in 4K on HBO Max Debacle

#132

Post by 0cf8612b2e1e »

Dumblydorr wrote: post #20

Unrelated: does anyone else experience huge lag with HBO streaming app? It’s easily the slowest I regularly use on Samsung smart tv.

If we are going to dog pile on streaming problems…

HBO is the worst about remembering what episode I just watched. Finish episode 6? Next time you go to click next episode, it might play #5. Incredibly annoying, coupled with their interface which makes selecting episodes clunky.

You just sent me how many GBs of data, how could you forget where I am?

Re: The "Mad Men" in 4K on HBO Max Debacle

#133

Post by venturecruelty »

Plankaluel wrote: post #64

I think this is just another case of "over-optimization to make shareholders happy in the end ruins everything". I.e., the normal enshittification problem. Pretty sure all of that does make financial sense: - Being able to write 4k will bring people in to re-watching/watching the show for the first time. - Redoing the CGI, etc., would have cost a lot of money. - Very few people will cancel their subscription or stop…

You're absolutely right, and I don't know why more people aren't talking about that instead of just pointing out aspect ratio issues in their favorite movies and TV shows...

This is the end goal of a system that doesn't think beyond next quarter, that wants to accumulate vast sums of money above all else, and that treats customers as an annoying side effect of the line going up. They'd take our money and give us nothing, if they could get away with it. Based on what passes for products these days (seriously? A toilet with a camera?) we're very nearly there.

Re: The "Mad Men" in 4K on HBO Max Debacle

#134

Post by knorker »

Relatedly, if anyone has a copy of Battle Royale before they ruined literally every effects shot with the digital special edition, please make yourself known to a member of staff.

It's not even that it aged poorly. The effects they added are so bad that it's hard to see what happened.

Like a guy's getting shot, and then they've spliced in a red dodgeball exploding, as if his head completely exploded. But one second later he's still alive. Huh?

There's even behind the scenes of them being completely happy with these grade school MS Paint BS.

Re: The "Mad Men" in 4K on HBO Max Debacle

#135

Post by wackget »

aomix wrote: post #74
liampulles wrote: post #29

Fun fact: The X-Files production team foresaw the coming of 16:9 home entertainment, so they made some effort (increasing with later seasons) to try and "protect" a 16:9 frame, which allowed for an unusually good 16:9 Blu-ray restoration. [ https://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/7499/look-inside-the-files... ] I learned this from the older X-files DVDs, which have some unusually good special features.

I never watched the widescreen version of The Wire they put out years ago but now I'm curious again. That show was a bone deep 4:3 product and the show plays with it constantly. Here is an interesting breakdown that made me really appreciate how clever they got while trying to be pretty subdued with the cinematography on The Wire https://vimeo.com/39768998

https://vimeo.com/39768998

> This video is not rated. Join vimeo to watch

No thanks. Here's a YouTube mirror: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufs0Rwx8sOk

Re: The "Mad Men" in 4K on HBO Max Debacle

#136

Post by alexfoo »

mapontosevenths wrote: post #52
parkersweb wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Through work I once got into conversation with the guy who did the re-mastering into 96kHz of the ABBA back catalogue. Up until that point CD re-releases of their material was apparently all converted from the cassette masters where they'd massively exaggerated the HF to compensate for the fact that cassette had a notoriously terrible HF response...

A few years back I had the sudden realization that I'd upgraded all my video equipment to HD and then 4k, but hadn't really done anything with my audio. So I went out and got nice equipment (Nice DAC, Headphones, Speakers, Etc). One of the first things I learned once I could hear music properly was that I had favorite "versions" of different albums. They truly are NOT created equally, but it's not something you can r…

> Once you can you really start to appreciate the work that folks like your friend do.

That can be a real double edged sword.

When you realise how good things can be it means many of the everyday/average things can become intolerable.

I'm happy that I've got slightly dodgy eyesight in that I don't really care whether something is in HD or 4K (I can still tell if my wife has selected the SD version of a TV channel, and I'm still way above the minimum standard to be able to drive).

I'm also happy I didn't inherit my father's audiophile hearing. I can do blind listening tests of different bits of audio equipment and barely hear the difference between them whilst my father (even in his 80's) can provide a whole list of things that are wrong/better/different about each of them (and he's not just making stuff up).

The biggest test is that I can also drink most supermarket instant coffee without complaint. I've got some friends that walk 25 minutes each way to their favourite coffee vendor multiple times a day as "everything closer is awful", but then that's more about them having a nice routine to get them away from their desk.

Re: The "Mad Men" in 4K on HBO Max Debacle

#137

Post by rahimnathwani »

parkersweb wrote: post #36
rob74 wrote: post #31

Stories like this regularly make the rounds when movies or shows that the original creators put a lot of love and thought into are "remastered" on the cheap. The last one I saw was the story about the garish colors in digital versions of old Pixar movies - amongst others, they intentionally exaggerated green hues in the digital original to compensate for the transfer process to analog film stock which was less sensit…

Through work I once got into conversation with the guy who did the re-mastering into 96kHz of the ABBA back catalogue. Up until that point CD re-releases of their material was apparently all converted from the cassette masters where they'd massively exaggerated the HF to compensate for the fact that cassette had a notoriously terrible HF response...

Tangent as you mentioned boosted high frequencies on tapes...

It's possible (likely) that those prerecorded cassettes had boosted high frequencies because they were intended to be played on a deck that supports Dolby B noise reduction, and will do the reverse operation to get the level back to where it's supposed to be.

Dolby B noise reduction didn't actually reduce noise at the source. Instead:

- During recording: Boost the volume of high frequencies (where tape hiss is most audible)

- During playback: Apply the inverse.

When you reduce the treble during playback, you're reducing the hiss along with it, but the original signal (which was boosted before) ends up at the intended level. This improves the signal-to-noise ratio in the high frequencies.

This is similar to the RIAA equalization curve used for vinyl records.

- During mastering: Reduce bass, boost treble.

- During playback:The RIAA phono preamp applies the inverse curve—boosting bass and reducing treble.

IIRC the reasons for the RIAA curve aren't just about improving signal-to-noise ratio, but something about the physical limits of vinyl.

Re: The "Mad Men" in 4K on HBO Max Debacle

#139

Post by th0ma5 »

alexpotato wrote: post #14

A side story on the techniques for restoration: I'm guessing about 10-15 years ago I was watching a documentary on the re-release of Ken Burns Civil War. They were highlighting the digital tools they were using to restore and enhance the original film capture for new streaming services etc. They showed one of the restorers using a fascinating tool where one window was a video feed of the original film's "first pass"…

I wonder if it was Cinepaint, one of the earlier Linux success stories

Re: The "Mad Men" in 4K on HBO Max Debacle

#140

Post by ThatMedicIsASpy »

rob74 wrote: post #31

Stories like this regularly make the rounds when movies or shows that the original creators put a lot of love and thought into are "remastered" on the cheap. The last one I saw was the story about the garish colors in digital versions of old Pixar movies - amongst others, they intentionally exaggerated green hues in the digital original to compensate for the transfer process to analog film stock which was less sensit…

Disneys old animated shows get remastered by cropping the 4:3 source to 16:9. It shows more often than not that something is missing from the picture.
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