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AI Is Breaking the Moral Foundation of Modern Society

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131–140 of 195 posts

Re: AI Is Breaking the Moral Foundation of Modern Society

#131
post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but if everyone can do everything without any effort, it is no longer valuable. And how is this a bad thing? Would it be good for oxygen to be valuable, or water? What's with this fetishistic obsession with "value"? What's bad about living in a world where nothing holds any value whatsoever?

Not everyone is a nihilist

How is not caring about things having a "value" being a nihilist? If everything is absolutely free for everyone, you see that as a bad thing?

Re: AI Is Breaking the Moral Foundation of Modern Society

#132
post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but if everyone can do everything without any effort, it is no longer valuable. And how is this a bad thing? Would it be good for oxygen to be valuable, or water? What's with this fetishistic obsession with "value"? What's bad about living in a world where nothing holds any value whatsoever?

Nestle lawyers argue that yes, water should be valuable.

Rockos Basilisk will take care of them.

Re: AI Is Breaking the Moral Foundation of Modern Society

#133
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only way to solve inequality created by concentration of AI superpowers will be extreme violence, and I'm tired of pretending that's not the case.

You say that like inequality is a problem. If so, there's a really easy way to solve it: nuke the planet back to the stone age. Personally, I'd rather have inequality if it means everyone can live a peaceful life. Let the rich have their yachts or whatever. I don't see why the increased productivity provided by AI won't make things better, given that all of the ills of the world are caused by scarcity: that is, insuf…

> I'd rather have inequality if it means everyone can live a peaceful life

Thank God a large majority of people with ironclad convictions don't think like you.

Re: AI Is Breaking the Moral Foundation of Modern Society

#134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AI is to many professions like the Knitting machines were to textile workers (where the word Luddite originated[0], people who opposed automation). Some "value" will be lost, but other will be generated. People WILL lose their jobs as what they did can either be done by AI directly or an AI Agent can write a script/program to do some or all what they did. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luddite

They were not opposing automation. They were opposing loss of jobs, wages, dignity in work and all that. And they turned out to be completely right. AI is just the next attack from capitalism in a long line of attacks aimed at workers. And this time its coming for every single worker, given that the explicit purpose is to create AI that can replace every single person.

You think anything they did could've put the automation genie back in the bottle?

Barring massive violence against anyone even thinking about automating something, is there anything the could've done realistically?

We're at the same point with AI now, a bit worse really. People are using AI for _everything_ since it's practically free to shove it at any problem and get "meh" results.

Then they do the math whether "meh" basically for free is better than "decent to good" for a liveable wage.

With knitting machines there was an actual monetary and time cost to getting them running so the adoption was slower.

AI adoption is moving at crazy speeds with no regard for anything. Some of the uses will stick and people will lose jobs, some will be scaled back because "meh" quality isn't sustainable practice.

Boycotting products and companies that use AI in a stupid "meh" way will work eventually, but for some fields it's here to stay because it's just better. Programming is one of them, there's no going back to "stupid" Intellisense or plain tab complete when even a local AI model powered system can pre-fill whole functions with 80-100% accuracy in seconds.

Re: AI Is Breaking the Moral Foundation of Modern Society

#135
post #124
post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We focus on colonisation of Universe and becoming a Kardashev Type III civilisation. Literally that.

We're just missing around 9001 steps between the devaluation of labor and the space exploration, which according to current understanding of physics is pure fantasy because all concepts of faster then light travel are purely "what-if" daydreams

Yeah, btw, AI was fantasy as well and yet here we are.

Re: AI Is Breaking the Moral Foundation of Modern Society

#136
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The moral comes from the grassroots as power corrupts. As long as we wait for a godlike leader for rescue the end result is same as with Stalin, Hitler, Trump, Thiel, Epstein, Musk, ... The godlikeness can come though in many forms, political (Trump), propaganda (Musk/Zuck7Thiel) or via extortion material and money like Epstein. A good litmus test for a decision maker is the universal ethical principle mentioned in t…

Power reveals rather than corrupt: it's easy to act moral when there are consequences (real or imagined) when you don't, but you see someone's true self when they know they could get away with it. For example, this is why the way someone treats service workers is a good indicator of someone's character.

Ye like a guy at Walmart and a cop. The leeway to mess with you is off by orders of magnitude.

Re: AI Is Breaking the Moral Foundation of Modern Society

#137
post #128

> “I own the compute infrastructure” or “I owned the company that bought the AI systems early”, on the other hand, is just being in the right place at the right time. It’s not about your talents, effort, or contribution. It’s pure capital ownership divorced from any human quality. The article is not about AI, it's about this stage of capitalism. Unlike the author, I would argue that it is very much in line with the c…

My take on this: Ultimately the industrial revolution has been beneficial to the majority, but when it occurred it triggered violent changes that pushed many communities toward hardship. From artisans owning or co-owning their means of production, with a significant creative license over their work and the possibility to take their own initiatives… to the efficiency of atomized labor, which strips away the creativity of most, and devalues the work. The created hardship providing more people ready to join the ranks of devalued workers… The industrial revolution was, first, a great mean of consolidating wealth, it immensely benefited a few, and only later “trickled down”. I see the AI revolution the same, it will violently break a significant portion of knowledge works, remove creative licenses, and devalue those works. Similarly to the industrial revolution, we can now atomize knowledge works as much as we want. Through this we can make the workers as easy to replace as we want them to be. This shifts power dynamics and allows the consolidation of wealth. There are strong market incentives for this and no regulations at the moment. I don’t see how we can avoid this. I don’t see those pushing this revolution as great humanists sadly. Yet ultimately, I think this will damage the middle class too much, creating instabilities. From there, there is a a chance we can reclaim the benefits of this revolution for all. But it will be a fight, and I believe the transition will be ugly.

Re: AI Is Breaking the Moral Foundation of Modern Society

#138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They were not opposing automation. They were opposing loss of jobs, wages, dignity in work and all that. And they turned out to be completely right. AI is just the next attack from capitalism in a long line of attacks aimed at workers. And this time its coming for every single worker, given that the explicit purpose is to create AI that can replace every single person.

You think anything they did could've put the automation genie back in the bottle? Barring massive violence against anyone even thinking about automating something, is there anything the could've done realistically? We're at the same point with AI now, a bit worse really. People are using AI for _everything_ since it's practically free to shove it at any problem and get "meh" results. Then they do the math whether "me…

The Luddites weren't against automation, they were retaliating against the capital class. Their demands were to have dignified work, not for automation to go away. They attacked the machines because it was the tool the capital class used to deny them their livelihood.

Re: AI Is Breaking the Moral Foundation of Modern Society

#139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I fixed a bunch of nitpicky PR comments just by saying "PR 69 has some comments, fix the issues" to Claude. It opened the PR automatically, took the comments and applied the fixes (renaming a few things, simple refactoring and added a few unit tests). Effort from me: maybe 5 minutes going through the PR comments and deciding they were super simple monkey work and 10 seconds typing instructions for Claude. Then maybe…

> maybe 5 minutes going through the PR comments and deciding they were super simple monkey work There’s an old joke about a mechanic banging a hammer on a car and charging $1000 for it. Man us engineers severely undervalue each other’s worth huh. One thing all this AI hype has taught me is I’ve started to be very conscious of what my value is. It’s a hard habit to break.

I've noticed how much of my daily work is just busywork that can be automated today.

I kinda enjoy it, I can focus more on planning, thinking, networking and solving actual problems rather than typing 1000 lines of unit tests by hand and then doing a stupid copy-paste mistake somewhere when I try to speed things up and spend 2 hours debugging it. (True story)

Re: AI Is Breaking the Moral Foundation of Modern Society

#140
post #10

I feel a lot less pride in my creative work knowing it can be done much too easily with modern AI. It makes me less eager to create which is quite unfortunate. I haven’t felt to bad about my creative works being fed into training models. Taken by itself, my creations are minuscule. But it’s very apparent when I look at AI as a whole, having taken from everyone in aggregate. I feel that.

I'm the opposite. I am more prideful and I appreciate art more exactly because I know that it could've been done by AI but someone somewhere chose not to.
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