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How to Attend Meetings

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Re: How to Attend Meetings

#131

Post by Aurornis »

eXpl0it3r wrote: post #52
parliament32 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I also know that in each and every company I have ever worked for, none of this is going to fly. My favourite part of climbing the corporate ladder is finally having enough clout to just say "no". > I have been asking for agendas; I have asked for clarification on what to do to prepare; I have even suggested Try "I am unable to attend meeting without an agenda. Let me know when one has been posted." in your decline…

And then you risk people making stupid decisions, which you have to fix later on, because you didn't attend the meeting. Sometimes it's not just about whether others think you should be there.

> And then you risk people making stupid decisions, which you have to fix later on, because you didn't attend the meeting.

If you are the one responsible for the work to fix something, you need to be the one driving the meetings or pushing alternative communication.

This is why all of the generic “just say no to meetings” advice is useless: It’s all dependent on the context. You can’t just decline meetings from your boss’s boss without good reason, for example.

A lot of snarky internet advice about saying “no” at the office is just people venting or doing imaginary role play. In a real office you have to push for communication, pull details out of people, identify who you need to report to and who you can safely decline.

If you get in a situation where you’re declining meetings and the responsibility for content of that meeting lands in your lap, you have made a severe misjudgment. These things are easy to clarify with a little proactive communication, but you get nowhere if you just say “no” or send off a singular “agenda plz” email and then forget about it. People are busy. You have to push and make it clear what you need from them, following up if it doesn’t come.

Re: How to Attend Meetings

#132

Post by blackqueeriroh »

ghostly_s wrote: post #111
parliament32 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I also know that in each and every company I have ever worked for, none of this is going to fly. My favourite part of climbing the corporate ladder is finally having enough clout to just say "no". > I have been asking for agendas; I have asked for clarification on what to do to prepare; I have even suggested Try "I am unable to attend meeting without an agenda. Let me know when one has been posted." in your decline…

> My favourite part of climbing the corporate ladder is finally having enough clout to just say "no". Well that's exactly the point- in most orgs, only high level people are granted the discretion to manage their time this way.

Fun story-

Worked at Sonos for several years. Was an IC4. My boss empowered me to say no to meetings whenever I wanted, and she was a new manager!

Sometimes all it takes is someone with a tiny bit of courage.

Literally nobody but people who want to waste their time and not do work or PMs who don’t know how to communicate want to have all these meetings.

I zealously avoid meetings and now that I’m a team lead at my new job, I’ll be encouraging my team to do the same and covering their asses when needed.

Re: How to Attend Meetings

#133

Post by blackqueeriroh »

darth_avocado wrote: post #86
garciasn wrote: post #7

I agree with each and every single slide in this presentation; I do. I also know that in each and every company I have ever worked for, none of this is going to fly. Especially, "Attending meetings is a choice." Just like paying taxes is a choice; got it. --- For decades, I have been asking for agendas; I have asked for clarification on what to do to prepare; I have even suggested that we have solid outcomes. None of…

> Especially, "Attending meetings is a choice." Just like paying taxes is a choice; I am pretty aggressive about declining meetings and protecting my time. And I still agree to what you say. No matter how you structure meetings, there’s always a chance that items unrelated to the agenda are discussed, decisions are made when they’re not supposed to be made, incorrect information is conveyed or misunderstandings are n…

Let me tell you what visibility looks like:

- regular reports sent to all stakeholders with relevant detail - videos that demonstrate important features that folks can watch on their own time - scheduling small, focused meetings with the most important stakeholders so they can actually get what they need

It doesn’t look like going to meetings and never talking, or worse, going to meetings and blathering on so someone knows you were there.

Re: How to Attend Meetings

#135

Post by kbos87 »

There's so much content and so many opinions on "meetings" that are polarized and come from a very narrow viewpoint. This particular POV seems reasonably critical of meetings but also recognizing that they are often warranted and can be carried out effectively.

I was happy to see "rallying the troops" as an acceptable reason to have a big meeting, because in my opinion it can be a good reason for a big meeting to exist (even though I'm sure many people disagree.)

Re: How to Attend Meetings

#136

Post by blackqueeriroh »

jon-wood wrote: post #46
micromacrofoot wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've had one manager over 10 jobs spanning 40 years that was on board with this

I’ve had multiple managers over many jobs who’ve said they were on board with this. I’ve had CEOs saying from the top down “decline meetings without an agenda”, and yet somehow it never changes.

Did you actually try doing it? Otherwise, how would it change?

Re: How to Attend Meetings

#137

Post by blackqueeriroh »

rafterydj wrote: post #32
grvdrm wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There wasn't a SINGLE ONE that would tolerate someone declining EVERY MEETING when the culture does not align to the ideals this presentation outlines. Exactly. Love the deck. Like you, agree with many things. My similar suggestions (but a little looser): 1. Long meetings need agendas. But don't expect perfection. You can get away with no agenda in a short (30 or less) meeting. 2. Very large meetings need a DRIVER…

Wow, I might need to steal that idea for bypassing Jira discussions. I hate Jira with all my might.

Why do you hate Jira?

Re: How to Attend Meetings

#138

Post by shermantanktop »

Aurornis wrote: post #131
eXpl0it3r wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And then you risk people making stupid decisions, which you have to fix later on, because you didn't attend the meeting. Sometimes it's not just about whether others think you should be there.

> And then you risk people making stupid decisions, which you have to fix later on, because you didn't attend the meeting. If you are the one responsible for the work to fix something, you need to be the one driving the meetings or pushing alternative communication. This is why all of the generic “just say no to meetings” advice is useless: It’s all dependent on the context. You can’t just decline meetings from your…

I’d amend that to “A lot of … advice … is just people … doing imaginary role play.”

A lot of bad advice out there, being delivered with confidence.

Re: How to Attend Meetings

#139

Post by blackqueeriroh »

blitzar wrote: post #97
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> wasn't a SINGLE ONE that would tolerate someone declining EVERY MEETING when the culture does not align to the ideals this presentation outlines Well yes, if the culture doesn't allow it then it's not going to happen. That doesn't mean those cultures don't exist or that they can't be created, even if just in a pocket

I just work here.

Then you can just keep going to meetings and hating it! Culture is created from both ends.

Re: How to Attend Meetings

#140

Post by blackqueeriroh »

maxerickson wrote: post #121
Aeolun wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can provide value to any meeting that I’m invited to. That doesn’t mean it’s the most valuable thing I can do with my time (especially given how tragically frustrating most of them are).

I mean, I can probably rephrase things to somehow eventually pin you down to admitting that maybe some meetings are worthwhile or otherwise necessary.

I’m looking for where GP or even the original presentation said that no meetings were worthwhile or otherwise necessary.

Can you help me find it?

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