Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

DeepSeek-v3.2: Pushing the frontier of open large language models [pdf]

huggingface.co

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

131–140 of 485 posts

Re: DeepSeek-v3.2: Pushing the frontier of open large language models [pdf]

#131

Post by dotancohen »

gradus_ad wrote: post #101

How will the Google/Anthropic/OpenAI's of the world make money on AI if open models are competitive with their models? What hurt open source in the past was its inability to keep up with the quality and feature depth of closed source competitors, but models seem to be reaching a performance plateau; the top open weight models are generally indistinguishable from the top private models. Infrastructure owners with acce…

People and companies trust OpenAI and Anthropic, rightly or wrongly, with hosting the models and keeping their company data secure. Don't underestimate the value of a scapegoat to point a finger at when things go wrong.

Re: DeepSeek-v3.2: Pushing the frontier of open large language models [pdf]

#132

Post by raw_anon_1111 »

tokioyoyo wrote: post #128
raw_anon_1111 wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can’t think of a single company I’ve worked with as a consultant that I could convince to use DeepSeek because of its ties with China even if I explained that it was hosted on AWS and none of the information would go to China. Even when the technical people understood that, it would be too much of a political quagmire within their company when it became known to the higher ups. It just isn’t worth the political cap…

If the Chinese model becomes better than competitors, these worries will suddenly disappear. Also, there are plenty startups and enterprises that are running fine-tuned versions of different OS models.

Yeah that’s not how Big Enterprise works…

And most startups are just doing prompt engineering that will never go anywhere. The big companies will just throw a couple of developers at the feature and add it to their existing business.

Re: DeepSeek-v3.2: Pushing the frontier of open large language models [pdf]

#133

Post by cubefox »

reilly3000 wrote: post #89
TIPSIO wrote: post #9

It's awesome that stuff like this is open source, but even if you have a basement rig with 4 NVIDIA GeForce RTX 5090 graphic cards ($15-20k machine), can it even run with any reasonable context window that isn't like a crawling 10/tps? Frontier models are far exceeding even the most hardcore consumer hobbyist requirements. This is even further

There are plenty of 3rd party and big cloud options to run these models by the hour or token. Big models really only work in that context, and that’s ok. Or you can get yourself an H100 rack and go nuts, but there is little downside to using a cloud provider on a per-token basis.

> There are plenty of 3rd party and big cloud options to run these models by the hour or token.

Which ones? I wanted to try a large base model for automated literature (fine-tuned models are a lot worse at it) but I couldn't find a provider which makes this easy.

Re: DeepSeek-v3.2: Pushing the frontier of open large language models [pdf]

#134

Post by espadrine »

torginus wrote: post #42
espadrine wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Two aspects to consider: 1. Chinese models typically focus on text. US and EU models also bear the cross of handling image, often voice and video. Supporting all those is additional training costs not spent on further reasoning, tying one hand in your back to be more generally useful. 2. The gap seems small, because so many benchmarks get saturated so fast. But towards the top, every 1% increase in benchmarks is sign…

Thanks for sharing that! The scales are a bit murky here, but if we look at the 'Coding' metric, we see that Kimi K2 outperforms Sonnet 4.5 - that's considered to be the price-perf darling I think even today? I haven't tried these models, but in general there have been lots of cases where a model performs much worse IRL than the benchmarks would sugges (certain Chinese models and GPT-OSS have been guilty of this in t…

Good question. There's 2 points to consider.

• For both Kimi K2 and for Sonnet, there's a non-thinking and a thinking version. Sonnet 4.5 Thinking is better than Kimi K2 non-thinking, but the K2 Thinking model came out recently, and beats it on all comparable pure-coding benchmarks I know: OJ-Bench (Sonnet: 30.4% https://artificialanalysis.ai/models/capabilities/coding

• The reason developers love Sonnet 4.5 for coding, though, is not just the quality of the code. They use Cursor, Claude Code, or some other system such as Github Copilot, which are increasingly agentic. On the Agentic Coding criteria, Sonnet 4.5 Thinking is much higher.

By the way, you can look at the Table tab to see all known and predicted results on benchmarks.

Re: DeepSeek-v3.2: Pushing the frontier of open large language models [pdf]

#135

Post by paulvnickerson »

zug_zug wrote: post #16

Well props to them for continuing to improve, winning on cost-effectiveness, and continuing to publicly share their improvements. Hard not to root for them as a force to prevent an AI corporate monopoly/duopoly.

[flagged]

Re: DeepSeek-v3.2: Pushing the frontier of open large language models [pdf]

#136

Post by fragmede »

nagaiaida wrote: post #125
siliconc0w wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

on what hypothetical grounds would you be more meaningfully able to sue the american maker of a self-hosted statistical language model that you select your own runtime sampling parameters for after random subtle security vulnerabilities came out the other side when you asked it for very secure code? put another way, how do you propose to tell this subtle nefarious chinese sabotage you baselessly imply to be commonpla…

This paper may be of interest to you: https://arxiv.org/html/2504.15867v1

Re: DeepSeek-v3.2: Pushing the frontier of open large language models [pdf]

#137

Post by giancarlostoro »

echelon wrote: post #85
srameshc wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As much I agree with your sentiment, but I doubt the intention is singular.

I don't care if this kills Google and OpenAI. I hope it does, though I'm doubtful because distribution is important. You can't beat "ChatGPT" as a brand in laypeople's minds (unless perhaps you give them a massive "Temu: Shop Like A Billionaire" commercial campaign). Closed source AI is almost by design morphing into an industrial, infrastructure-heavy rocket science that commoners can't keep up with. The companies p…

ChatGPT is like "Photoshop" people will call any AI chatgpt.

Re: DeepSeek-v3.2: Pushing the frontier of open large language models [pdf]

#138

Post by vessenes »

wosined wrote: post #130

Remember: If it is not peer-reviewed, then it is an ad.

I mean.. true. Also, DeepSeek has good cred so far on delivering roughly what their PR says they are delivering. My prior would be that their papers are generally credible.

Re: DeepSeek-v3.2: Pushing the frontier of open large language models [pdf]

#139

Post by jonplackett »

gradus_ad wrote: post #101

How will the Google/Anthropic/OpenAI's of the world make money on AI if open models are competitive with their models? What hurt open source in the past was its inability to keep up with the quality and feature depth of closed source competitors, but models seem to be reaching a performance plateau; the top open weight models are generally indistinguishable from the top private models. Infrastructure owners with acce…

Either...

Better (UX / ease of use)

Lock in (walled garden type thing)

Trust (If an AI is gonna have the level of insight into your personal data and control over your life, a lot of people will prefer to use a household name)

Re: DeepSeek-v3.2: Pushing the frontier of open large language models [pdf]

#140

Post by subroutine »

tokioyoyo wrote: post #128
raw_anon_1111 wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can’t think of a single company I’ve worked with as a consultant that I could convince to use DeepSeek because of its ties with China even if I explained that it was hosted on AWS and none of the information would go to China. Even when the technical people understood that, it would be too much of a political quagmire within their company when it became known to the higher ups. It just isn’t worth the political cap…

If the Chinese model becomes better than competitors, these worries will suddenly disappear. Also, there are plenty startups and enterprises that are running fine-tuned versions of different OS models.

As a government contractor, using a Chinese model is a non-starter.
Post reply on HN